Help my Mudd-Ox sunk!

[mudbug3]

PA Jeep

I owned a Mudd-Ox so I know what I'm talking about. Trying following an Argo 6x6 or 8x8 ,a Max IV 6x6, and a Hustler 950 or 980 take your choice, in a gas Mudd-Ox not a diesel Mudd-Ox , down a 28-30 degree incline and then into water deep enough to float the tub on all these machines ,and you'll see just how amphibious a gas Mudd-Ox is really quick! This will break your habit from wanting to do that again I assure you. You won't with the nose heavy Mudd-Ox I found out from my own experience! This is why I sold it and got an Argo. But the biggest reason was I wanted a dealer that would take care of my needs if I had any and not keep giving me one excuse after the other.

In this video you'll see an Argo 6x6 swimming in the water and at the end of this video you'll see the Argo 6x6 exit the water up a small incline. There was also a video shot of a Mudd-Ox swimming around the edges of the bank ,but because the Mudd-Ox could'nt climb out of the water at the same end that the argo 6x6 did, this video was removed.

[PA Jeep]

Oh i can't offer much banter with comparing machines. (I’m a newbie) If you guys with lots of aatv experience offer your opinion then it must be so from my seat. That said I just want good honest information about the Mudd Ox Company being offered. Just as product performance claims are grounds for possible legal action so are false claims directed toward companies. I purchased a diesel ox of my own and love it. My machine even swims, I must have a good one.

[mudbug3]

PA Jeep

No one who has owned a gas Mudd-Ox or diesel Mudd-Ox will say they don't swim, that is not in question here. I hope you never have a problem with your Mudd-Ox and its as reliable as a Timex watch.

[Noel Woods]

PA JEEP:
I would love to see some video of your diesel Mudd Ox swimming, and some general footage as well. Please post up some video. I agree with mudbug3 and wish you no ill will either towards you or your machine. The forum is a place where we share thoughts and opinions, sometimes they may vary from person to person.
I may disagree with you, you may disagree with me. Its America. We have that ability.

[mudbug3]

We are up to 4,271 veiws on this forum post now. This must be a hot topic.

[kmac]

Kmac: I'm happy that you have a solution to your problem that works for you. I think you are a person that is much easier to deal with than I would be in your position. I think the bigger issue is that the machine was marketed to you as amphibious vehicle as it stood. Had I purchased the two machines, and had to fabricate the outrigger system just to get the machines to float, then I assure you I would deal with the manufacturer in a different manner.
I hope the outriggers meet your needs. I would venture to say the mechanical complexity and the loss of land maneuverability, is going to come back to haunt you. Let us all know how the system works for you long term, and good luck in the exploration business.

Well Noel, all i can say to you is that I am a desperate man, and I try to make the best i can out of every situation. Am i happy i bought a Mudd-Ox with all of this headache? No..If i could find the 46k I would have gone with the hyratrek and it would be delivered on time and does what it says on the tin. The only thing that keeps me going is that despite the extra costs, what I paid for the ox and accessories, have yet to amount to the 46k for the entry level basic hyratrek. I received funding to conduct research for three years. I've lost one year waiting on the OX, and now i am loosing precious months trying to fix them and make sure they work and I am still waiting on bits of pieces of accessories to be delivered. I am trying to plan but every day there is a new headache, and i am loosing more and more time. If i wasn't in Jamaica i can assure you there would be a class action law suit. I can't even let my funders or my university know that all of this happened because they are none too pleased with the delay and they would consider it as a legal matter. Also, it would mean that in the future i would not be given the freedom to purchase the equipment i wanted without going through a lengthy procurement procedure. The sad thing is that it took me two years to convince the Government of Jamaica, the GEF and UNEP to pay for an ox. So to now turn and tell them that I was wrong would mean I would not be funded in the future. So they have to work. I can't send them back because my project funds are exhausted and that would cost too much to do. Two of my projects are now busted financially because of this mess, plus i had a 10k USD piece of equipment on the ox (plus my DSLR, my phone) when it sank. I lost everything and was told that i might have to purchase a new 10k piece of equipment because the salt water screwed it up. So you haven't heard the half of it. It has been a very very disappointing experience to say the least and what would make it slightly better would be if Matt just come through with what is left so that I can stop bugging him. The only good thing is that i am learning everything there is to know about these equipment, how to repair them, how to get parts, how to do everything myself and i have found local people who can help. So I am not worried about future problems because the OX is basic enough for me to find replacement parts or order them and get them shipped to Jamaica within a week. I am not too sure if it would be the same with the hydratrek.

But If these were delivered on time and they worked, i could've secured funding to purchase at least 4 more. That was the plan, to use them for ecotourism etc and trust me I was poised to try to get additional funding. But that opportunity came and went because i was unable to get the oxs in time to demonstrate anything.
So unfortunately if i do get funding again, i am buying a hydratrek. I am going for the cheapest version...

[kmac]

Not to mention that I publish the results of my research in international peer reviewed journals..other scientists are keen to follow whatever method is published. So the ox could have found a new audience and possibly new customers. Also quite a few people are following my project and are trying to find a cost effective long term solution to control some nasty trees and plants in other marshes/swamp land. So they are potential customers that will be lost..So there is a downside to all of this for Matt...

[kadookid]

I've been an aatv fan since the late 60's and we are such a small group If one company has a problem lets group togather with positve feedback and help solve the problems and keep the few companies that do supply these machines alive and well. I've never owned a muddox or met Matt either, but I bet their both Highly qualified Remember even the unsinkable TITANIC went down when all conditions were just right to be wrong. IF anyone wants to pick on a really bad machine it would be the ole KADDOO made right here in my home town, and I'LL be the first to agree it was a real pile. and no one affliated with it's design is still alive, I have collected them for many years just for the simple fact that I do'nt want anyone do like I DID and think they could make a goood machine out of it. Mike.

[kmac]

I think it was a gross miscalculation on my part. I needed an ATV that would be used 50% on land and 50% on water and I tried to figure out every possible problem before they happen; but funny enough, sinking wasn't one of them. The Oxs can swim, but not with so many heavy accessories, and I was loaded up to the hilt with accessories.
For the price, the OX is possibly the best machine you can get with a diesel engine. I just wish i knew that it was ok at best on water...because I need it to travel up to 7 or 8 knots, and I would have prepared much better...

[wfo]

i dont think you miscalculated, you bought something
that didnt produce what was advertised..a manufature is supposed to make sure
that any and all add ons will perform as advertised...fulley loaded and float
i just hope nobody on this forum gets hurt..

[kadookid]

Kmac you have to also consider most of us just play with there machines,what your doing is a whole new ball game. you will soon find out the ole ox will be your best friend in my opinion .

WFO not to start a war but the accessories that a manufacture has for there machines is for there accessories, for that machine, not the consumer,

I mean all the accessories that the consumer may carry aboard.

[Noel Woods]

Kmac: I hate to hear about the loss of revenue, the loss of spin off funding, etc. It looks to me that if the manufacturer was interested in resolving your issues they would have done so at this point. Had they done so, or at least delivered the machines to you timely, they could have translated that into the sale of four additional units to you. I know you described yourself to them as a commercial customer. From the other forum posts you have much better luck as a commercial customer than someone would as an individual. I can sense your frustration as a commercial customer. I agree with you that the Hydratrek would have been the first choice for your application. Maybe the folks at that company follow this forum and will work with you. The good news for you is that nearly all the components of the Mudd Ox are off the shelf items and can be procured from other than the maker. I still think you have legal recourse however as what you requested (wider bodied machines) was not what you got. The "amphibious" title associated with this machine is dubious at best and also subject to legal challenge.

[hancock]

The reputation a company has is ultimately what it has earned.

[jpswift1]

The reputation a company has is ultimately what it has earned.

Hahahaha, love that picture. And Hancock, you're absolutely right. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The Mudd Ox method of taking your money and then offering no support after the sale certainly isn't a good way to conduct business, and it will send the business in one direction, down into the ground. It doesn't matter how busy someone is, if they sell you something they should always be there to back it up and help you out, especially when it's as costly as these Mudd Ox machines.

[Matt O.]

PA JEEP:
I have revised my post from earlier. If you were astute enough to read my earlier posts, you would see where I praised the Mudd Ox for being an awesome offroad vehicle. I do not think the diesel version is amphibious as most people come to understand the word. The fact that the web site says it is amphibious is not going to be good for the manufacturer when the next machine sinks.
Kmac is lucky that he didn't go down down with his machine in crocodile infested waters. The last thing I want to see is any operator of a Mudd Ox get injured or killed.
I would think a shrewd business man like Matt would revise his website and alter or remove the word "amphibious" because to me that looks like a lawsuit in the making the next time a machine goes down.
I would also think that Matt could make the machine truly amphibious with a few design changes. Matt show us what you can do.

Hi Noel and everyone,
I am going to answer a few questions here and give some information. I am working with Kurt to get his Mudd-Ox up and going again after the machine was taken into the ocean and to increase his load limits when in calm water. His machines were produced with some changes to improve floatation but with all of the weight he wants to carry he needs more. We have the front float kits made and ready to ship. This will give the machines 350 pounds increase in floatation. Kurt is also working on some side floats. Please note: As stated in the operation manual the load limit in the water is 800 pounds less the weight of accessories and only operate the Mudd-Ox in calm water. (please note: when the dual wheel kit is installed you may increase from 800 to 1400 lbs.) The Mudd-Ox is amphibious and will float and swim in calm water as stated when at or under the load limit.

The Mudd-Ox is a heavy duty machine and performs well in very harsh terrain. Because the Mudd-Ox is built heavy duty it does weigh more than other machines and load capacity in the water is less. When customers load the machine down with accessories the water load limit is even less. To offer customers a heavy duty machine with a Diesel engine and have a higher water load capacity without having to add front or side floats Mudd-Ox Inc. We'll be offering a new model of 8X8 this year that has 8 inches more room in the front passenger and driver area from the dash to the seat back. The lower tub will be 2 inches wider and 6 inches deeper offering more floatation and free board from water coming over the side, front, and rear. The machine will be better balanced in the water giving customers a better approach angle when entering and exiting the water. The new machine will be about 126 inches long, 60 inches wide. I have attached a photo of the new lower body pattern for you to see. I will post more information as the new machine is completed.

Regards,

Matt