The 8x8s from China

[amphibiousvehicles]

Note by administrator in Orange: This member is a "dealer" / fraud trying to scam everyone here and promote the ATVs that he is selling. I left this thread here for archival purposes for those searching Google but didn't want anyone to take any of this thread seriously. Please see post number 13 in this thread for a further explanation: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/other...tml#post155452

His original post is below:

I'm somewhat intrigued by the 8x8s from China. The Bonai, Jiangdong, and Wild Panther. They seem to be much better priced than the ones made here. Before people starting knocking them because they are from China, let me go over some pros and cons.

Pros:
Better price

Is it fair to dismiss them as knock-offs of the Argo? Well, then by that logic so is every 6x6/8x8 made posterior the Argo, whether made in the United States or not. I believe the Jiger was one of the first amphibious 6x6s. So does that make the Argo a knock-off of the Jiger? Should there be only one car maker? Only one kind of soda? Is competition bad?

Just because they're from China, does that make them inferior quality? A lot of what we purchase that we might even think is American-made because it's been private labeled by an American company is from China. The official Xbox 360 is made in....China. The cost of labor and doing business is lower. That doesn't mean the quality is lower. Are low prices bad?

So let's drop the anti-China thing and offer objective reviews/thoughts about them.

Now I understand the real big con, but to me it seems like the lower price can make up for that. Being made in China, it would be virtually impossible to enforce any kind of warranties or promises of the makers/suppliers. But if you know anything about 6x6s/8x8s, I'm sure you could track down the parts needed to make something operable that otherwise wasn't.

[jpswift1]

I'm very curious about your intentions here. Your username is amphibiousvehicles and you don't have any other posts except for this one which isn't a post introducing yourself, it isn't one saying what machine you're considering to buy, it's just one that seems to jump to the defense of the Chinese 8x8. You really seem to be promoting them, and if you're a dealer for them (which I really wonder if you are, since one just popped up on ebay) then you'll be promptly banned from the site because 6X6World is NOT for commercial use. Mike doesn't take kindly to this, and that's what has made it the biggest and best site on the Internet. If that's not the case and you're an AATV enthusiast that wants to learn about the various machines out there (and you're not a dealer trying to sell Chinese 8x8's), come tell us about yourself and your background in the new members thread......we love having new folks join up with us.

[LarryW]

I'm very curious about your intentions here. Your username is amphibiousvehicles and you don't have any other posts except for this one which isn't a post introducing yourself, it isn't one saying what machine you're considering to buy, it's just one that seems to jump to the defense of the Chinese 8x8. You really seem to be promoting them, and if you're a dealer for them (which I really wonder if you are, since one just popped up on ebay) then you'll be promptly banned from the site because 6X6World is NOT for commercial use. Mike doesn't take kindly to this, and that's what has made it the biggest and best site on the Internet. If that's not the case and you're an AATV enthusiast that wants to learn about the various machines out there (and you're not a dealer trying to sell Chinese 8x8's), come tell us about yourself and your background in the new members thread......we love having new folks join up with us.

Exactly what I thought JP.

[amphibious drew]

Chinese 8x8's are unproven and no one to my knowledge has successfully imported one into the USA. I am not a big fan of Argo's design. Personally, I like the t-20 much better. That being said, why would I buy a knockoff of my least favorite amphibious atv in today's market. You defend the fact that it could be broken and parts may be difficult to find with an "I can fix anything attitude," and your only positive about the machine is price. You would be much better off buying a t-20 machine that lacked basic service such as bearings, chain, cables and such, and doing a bit of work yourself to make it trail ready, than buying an unproven, unknown, knock off of the 4th best aatv on the market. It would also be cheaper than buying an unknown aatv from a company based in a country know for making very very low quality atv's. Also, Chinese produced products made for American based company's are made to our spec. Knock off atv's and aatv's do not have the same build spec's as Japanese or American made products. You find me a German or Italian made aatv that was unproven, and I might give it a bit more consideration as their automotive build qualities are fantastic. Sorry. But China has a poor reputation for a reason.

[akranger72]

Yes sounds like someone is trying to sell Chinese 8x8 AATV's? I think we have enough quality AATV's here in the USA to chose from already.

[amphibious drew]

I would like to add that the seller on eBay is only taking orders for machines. He does not appear to have any on hand or in the country. That is not the first time am eBay seller has attempted this.

[amphibiousvehicles]

Well, I came back because I wanted to see what people would say. Hear people's objective opinions. Has anybody used one of the 8x8s from China? If so, how did it go? That kind of thing. I think some of the replies demonstrate the anti-China bias here. I haven't written nor posted one thing to indicate I'm a dealer of 8x8s from China. So merely because I mention the 8x8s from China, people react like that. If I had came on to write about how I don't understand why the old Cushman trackster isn't given much attention would the reaction be similarly negative?

I am a 6x6, 8x8 enthusiast. I'm not super wealthy. So I do look for alternatives. I've seen things on this forum about people building their own, which I'm doing myself. I guess that is doing something horrible by not buying an Argo. But it's not even about Argo here. I think Argo looks fantastic. It's just a bit out of my price range. I'm not knocking Argo.

[amphibious drew]

Well, I came back because I wanted to see what people would say. Hear people's objective opinions. Has anybody used one of the 8x8s from China? If so, how did it go? That kind of thing. I think some of the replies demonstrate the anti-China bias here. I haven't written nor posted one thing to indicate I'm a dealer of 8x8s from China. So merely because I mention the 8x8s from China, people react like that. If I had came on to write about how I don't understand why the old Cushman trackster isn't given much attention would the reaction be similarly negative?

I am a 6x6, 8x8 enthusiast. I'm not super wealthy. So I do look for alternatives. I've seen things on this forum about people building their own, which I'm doing myself. I guess that is doing something horrible by not buying an Argo. But it's not even about Argo here. I think Argo looks fantastic. It's just a bit out of my price range. I'm not knocking Argo.

If a cheap price is your main concern, and you really want something that looks like an Argo, your going to have to buy one. If you read my posts, you would see none, including the ones "up for auction" have made it to the USA yet. Once you get yours, bring it to a big group ride so we all can see how it performs. Hope to see you following us down the trails soon, but depending on this guys order cut off, it will take 30-60 days from time your payment clears for shipping. Seems like a long time for something that ships that day.

[thebuggyman1]

I am a 6x6, 8x8 enthusiast. I'm not super wealthy. So I do look for alternatives. I've seen things on this forum about people building their own, which I'm doing myself. I guess that is doing something horrible by not buying an Argo. But it's not even about Argo here. I think Argo looks fantastic. It's just a bit out of my price range. I'm not knocking Argo.

Let me put a little more positive spin on this.

Hi amphibiousvehicles, welcome to the site. Any machine you buy or make is welcome at our group rides. Posting your location helps to find others in your are to ride with. It may also help to point you in the direction of a nice inexpensive machine for sale. Even without a vehicle, you are welcome at the group rides....someone always has an empty seat. Here is the next group ride http://www.6x6world.com/forums/trail...-3-2013-a.html

Your user name along with the generic post of the "Chinese machines" is probably what made people think you may be a dealer or other commercial interest. We have seen them try to infiltrate the site many times in the past just for some free advertising......those posts do get deleted.

[LarryW]

Has anybody ever bought one? Never heard of anybody owning one.

I have bought a kazuma 50 ATV and a powermax 16hp engine and have worked on 3 friends Chinese mopeds. All of them have junk rubber fuel lines, vent hoses or anything rubber. The plastic on the ATV and mopeds are real fragile compared Japanese ATVs. The plastic fan on the motor also broke. All are great deals and I would buy another Chinese ATV for the kids or Chinese motor but I realize I might have issues and I'm not dumping near even a grand into one. Now a plastic bodied aatv needs good quality plastic. So that would really bother me. And even though its cheap vs American made, its still a very large chunk of money to gamble with.

Now I don't really know if their plastic is good or not. It may be good.

[kghills]

Well, I have not seen one in person but have seen over 200 detailed pictures of one taken by one of Matt's dealers in the UK. I am sure Matt would love to jump in here and tell everyone his thoughts but I would guess he knows it's not really his place to do so owning two US based AATV companies. But I on the other hand will let it fly. Price: Yep, they're cheap. Really cheap for what you get. You can take that any way you want. Argo knock off: Yep, about as close to an Argo as anything I have ever seen that isn't an Argo. Even the transmission. It's sort of amazing and everything has that made by a Chinese ATV manufacturer look (see this explained in Price). Body: The bodies are not poly and you know my opinion on that sort of thing for trail riding. But again, this does not seem to be a problem for some people if the price is right (again see this explained in price). Tires: Implement type tires for cryin out loud. You would think if at least they had a real amphibious tire on the thing it would have one saving grace but we are probably back to price (yep, it's explained in price again). Engine: Should perform as well as any of the other Chinese 4 strokes.

In my opinion, after studying the pictures and hearing the owners impressions this is my take. It IS a Chinese Argo knock off. It is not a copy of a Max, Attex, Amphicat, Hustler or Jigger for that matter and to tell me that it is not a Chinese copy of an Argo insults my intelligence. For the money like most low end Chinese stuff you get what you pay for. I have had Chinese ATVs. For learning to ride, and running around in the yard they're just fine. My guess is any of the Chinese AATVs would be fine for that also. I would never think of trying to tackle any seriously deep, muddy, mucky rutted up trails with one. I would certainly not put the money out to have one imported just to see how it worked. But that's me. At some point I would guess they will be imported and start to be sold in the US. That's probably OK. Then they can have their own thread and everyone can hear comments from actual owners and we can all make our own decision on how they perform for the money. But I really would not look to see Whipper making one into a springer or RD loading one down and heading into the bush with one any time soon.

Keith.

[ARGOJIM]

The way the original post was written opened this thread up for the anti-chinese argument.

As far as the machines go has anyone physically seen one or drove one? I've seen the youtube video like most have but have never heard of anyone who even knows someone who has one.

I'd like to hear an honest opinion of an actual owner who has had the machine out, for more than a 20 minute ride in their back yard, and actually ridden it for a good hard 3-4 hour trail ride just to hear the positives and negatives.

A good ride like the rides at Busco, Haspin or even Pine Lake would really tell of the machines capabilities and quality. When Humphrey was around many manufacturers would bring out the new changes and real world test them. The Centaur made a ride in it's infancy, the splined axles showed up by Max, the Hydrotrax Guys showed up and hated the trees and roots, the limited edition Black Conquest with the 25's showed up and Matt sat back and took it all in, and look what happened there.

I'd LIKE to see the Chinese machines show up at one of these rides so we all can see what they are or aren't and have an educated opinion of them.

Course I still don't want my money in China.

[Mike]

I was a little late to the party on this one but you guys were all over it. It's obvious that this guy only joined the site to promote his ATVs but I always want to have a little proof before banning someone.

After a little research: This guy's name is Mark Anderson and he is a "dealer" or trying to be a dealer for these cheap Chinese Argo knockoff's in the US. I don't want to promote his "business", and I'll use that term loosely, in any way so I don't want to post his ebay username or company name, links, phone number, etc but he is selling or has tried to sell these in the past on ebay. Just the fact that he has to lie and make up a story here on the site to try to promote these should speak loudly enough about his character. I would urge anyone even remotely considering one of these to take that into great consideration before handing over any money to these frauds.

The fact that Wild Panther blatantly copies Argo's design in the first place is appalling. This guy fits right in with that unethical business model so I'm sure he will be a perfect dealer to carry on that company culture here in the US.

Welcome to the band Mr. Anderson.

Mark-Anderson-Chinese-8x8-Argo.jpg

[lewis]

guys! And Thanks Mike

[MaxRules]

That guy has been around for a while. I'm not sure why he is the only one pushing these vehicles or why nobody seems to own one yet. Kghills seems to be the only one that has even 'heard' of someone having one on hand (any pics of the driveline/trans?). When the chinese quads and side by sides hit the market, it seemed like they were everywhere overnight. It would be great if someone associated with this Chinese Argo would bring it to a ride for all to see. I wonder if there are any rides coming up that lots of amphib enthusiasts will attend, camcorders rolling? Probably