new amphib manufacturer, with your help...

[micmac]

T-20

MMT,

I would imagine that RI would be resist selling the venerable T-20 in mass to a competitor.

[AndyL]

I love the idea of a little 6x6 that can have counter-rotating wheels, but if you are building a high speed 6x6, wouldn't that be even more dangerous? what about improving the design of one of the older aatv transmissions? i would think that hydraulic is not the best move for a little recreational 6x6 that would be raced and such...
are you looking at using only 4 strokes? will they be built performance 4 strokes or right off the crate?
i looked into buying 3 suspension sets for 4 wheelers for a prototype 6x6 suspension, but it's honestly not much cheaper than whippers set at about $6,000, and his is heavy duty and comes with the mounting plate.
another alternative is looking into the old floatation tires. why aren't those made anymore? i hear they are SO much more comfortable than tires and rims.
would you make your own axles? i know you're not looking into gaining much profit from this project right away, but once you are set up for making axles, it may be cheaper to just buy axles from argo (~$60 or so)...maybe, maybe not.
i hope this can become a reality. i grew up with max's, but i'm trying to find an old attex and do all kinds of mods, and i think i'll probably like it more than any max i've ever owned or driven.

[Amphiman1]

old tires

I kinda like the old tires...... as if u can't tell....

[MIteyMT]

Had a wonderful visit with Mudbug on the phone tonight. He's really got my wheels turning. I am imagining away, and then I will run it by the mech. engineer (my brother), and see what he has in mind. I am surprised by the demand for a small, quick six wheel rig. Here in Alaska, there is a lot of desire for the large, tussock and tundra spanning abilities of large eight wheelers. With Mudbug, we got into discussing 4 wheeled oufits with tracks that span (think terrajet), eight wheeled outfits with tracks on the middle two axles, tires that nearly touch, making the three or four of them together almost act like tracks (due to close proximity), and after I got off the phone, I wondered what would happen if you staggered axles, to allow them to be placed closer together than tire diameter. Have to look up some of his recommended reading. I was gonna start drawing tonight, but I have so many ideas after talking some more, that I realize I have to many things to think about to even make a drawing. Funny, I had drawings when I had less ideas!
In answer to some questions, I am looking for a crate motor rig, I am entirely undecided on a propulsion system. I am wondering what the downside of hydraulic motors are from those who are using them.
As far as using the T20, and not a potential business conflict, I don't know, but it's a good reason to look at hydraulic motors from the getgo, and an excellent point.
I considered buying and customizing older rigs that are out there, like others have done, but my real passion would be to be able to put a new machine out there, with a warranty, and to be priced comparable to two small 4x4 fourwheelers. I am leaning towards an 8x8 today, or more accurately I am leaning towards machines of that size. I am certain that there is room for a couple of designs, everybody does a big one and a little one. Keep throwing up ideas. I am excited to get some drawings up here, and to find out what is working in them, and what is not.

[B.A.]

In between

Have you thought of building a machine size in between a standard 6X6 and 8X8. Using 6 larger wheels. It would have more carrying capacity than a 6x6 for us sportsmen but still be small enough for zipping around. Larger tires for more clearance. multi speed trans. for speed and tuff going. All aluminum tub with poly skidplate(aluminum doesn't slide well). springer seat to smooth the ride. removable rear bench seat to accomodate 4 people (as required). Briggs or honda power. I would not use hydraulics.

My 2 cents.

[MIteyMT]

B.A., the amphib you just described makes a LOT of sense. I have been distracted the last couple days on an idea that I cannot get to come together. Your idea would fit within the 1,500 pound limit required for offroad use here in AK. (Does anyone know what Canada's rule is for offroad vehicle weight?)
I have been thinking about the X craft catamaran the Navy built, and trying to sort out an all track driven catamaran design, but I am having too many "if"s about it. The goal there was to make an amphib that had sufficient speed and low enough drag to allow for crossing Alaska's cold and treacherous rivers.
I love my Argo, and I think your idea has so much working for it, but even with an outboard, a machine like that does not cross serious rivers. I am not stuck on crossing fast rivers, but it is a niche that has not really been answered yet, and would make playing around in the interior of Alaska exponentially better. A large 6x6 with that good old low CG, but very high sides would be appealing. A little bit of math could make a machine that you can still see over the bed of when looking backwards, but that would let you stack meat low, and then lighter cargo high, and make the meat wagon tow behind completely obsolete. That would do us some good here in the interior. 6 axles would have to be quite robust, because they would likely be called upon to transport over 1,500 pounds.

[Bw6]

Addiction Warning

MI, One thing myself and many other members can attest to is this sport is very addictive. Whether you are designing or building or both it can consume all your spare time and money

From my personal experience the design process always ends up with a compromise. Take for instance (water speed), everyone know about the "Quadski", Gibbs solved it, retract the wheels, low drag hull, jet pump, add $1,000's= 50 mph. But off road ability is limited, along with many other limitations.

The Fast Track Amphibious vehicle achieved 39 mph. using 300 hp. and $1,000's as well.

To achieve your design goals you will need to compromise on some features. If your trying to cross fast moving rivers, you will end up compromising other more useful features.

I would make a list of "must have", this will help you focus and refine your design.

[artist1018]

Have you thought of building a machine size in between a standard 6X6 and 8X8. Using 6 larger wheels. It would have more carrying capacity than a 6x6 for us sportsmen but still be small enough for zipping around. Larger tires for more clearance. multi speed trans. for speed and tuff going. All aluminum tub with poly skidplate(aluminum doesn't slide well). springer seat to smooth the ride. removable rear bench seat to accomodate 4 people (as required). Briggs or honda power. I would not use hydraulics.

My 2 cents.

Have you looked at the Hydratrek & Landtamer websites?

[MIteyMT]

NO, I have not yet. I was looking at a John Deere dozer this morning, and how it had a single drive wheel, and heavy skirts on the lower half of the tracks to keep dirt out. What I am wondering about today is if that skirting could improve the drag problem in water, and increase speed.
I could not agree with you more, any of you, that getting a design that really does it all might be an impossible riddle. And my "must have" list changes every day. Get a little here, lose a little there. I think I could use some sound concepts that are working in the 6x6 and 8x8 types, and build a successful amphib right now. I am going to try my hand at design for a little while longer, just in case there is something in my brain that might come out and change the sport. Doubtful I will get it right on the first try. I am going to hit up my brother again. He is a mechanical engineer, and owner of mosdal.com . Before he bought the business he was working on props for the navy (torpedoes). He might solve the water speed problem. Wife says, if the wheels slow you down so much in the water, why not just take them off. Can't think of a way to do that that is affordable, sound, etc.

[B.A.]

fast water crossing with AATV

In one of your previous posts you talk about serious water crossing. I have boated in serious water, run rapids up stream and down in Airboats, 16 foot lunds, and frieghter canoes with outboards. In my opinion I would not attempt this with an AATV no matter what the design. This type of operation requires experience to navigate these changing conditions and know when water conditions are too severe. Many inexperienced and experienced boat operators end up swamping boats that are designed specifically for water operation. Comparing boat hull design to AATV tub design with added wheels, would indicate that the AATV is not designed to cut the water like a boat which seriously reduces directional control in current which adds to the hazards. Also I don't think there is a large demand for this application.

just my thoughts.

[brushcutter]

If you're thinking of a tracked vehicle,there are 3 manufacturers here in Louisiana,:Marsh Master, Wilco Marsh Buggies, and Marsh Buggies Inc. I have had the pleasure of riding these last two machines, and let me tell you that they ARE unstopable, even while dragging a 20" steel workboat with 4 men and thousands of lbs of equipment. Max waterspeed 2mph. I once called and talked with them about a recreational version, and was told that they M.B.Inc had looked into it at one time, but did not believe there was enough money in it , the cost would put the machine out of reach for the average buyer. M.M. does however make the MM1 that would be the closest thing to a recreational machine of this type.

[mudbug3]

I watched a video today of the Marsh Master , M1 ,( smallest version ) and this is one awesome amphious machine!

[MIteyMT]

B.A. You are likely right about demand. However, locally, in Fairbanks Alaska, The ability to cross a fast river, or to cover even a mile or two to get to a confluence, would make many peoples mouths water. Some of the best opportunities in the state are just across a river, very few roadside opportunities. You are right, that is a small population. I had a feeling that Canada might have many similar situations. As far as 100 river miles, I have to agree it seems a bit out of reach. Also, the group that finds river fording attractive is the same group that doesn't hire guides, doesn't fly in, etc. So, it's for guys who like doing it on the cheap. therefore, the machine they are interested in can't get too complicated. I fear I could end up solving a problem halfway, when the rest of the world just throws the atv on the boat and ferries across to the good part.
Marsh Master looked a LOT like and idea that I was milling over, but so many of these machines have a single big comfortable seat, and then some small awkward storage.
After milling this whole thing over, I am getting closer and closer to just rolling with a dumpster on tires, with a track option.
Wife pointed out today that tanks operators sit inside the tank, just head exposed, and that a cab for a machine like that would not be much more than a lid. If I could do that without drowning anyone, or trapping them in a fire, that might have some merit.
The "must have" list is getting put in order a little more each day. Thank all of you for your input. Turns out I am going sheep hunting this weekend, but will try to get a concept drawing up after the weekend

[mudslinger]

Something really different

If you are feeling really adventurous you could try an electric hybrid version of what is already out there. With electric motors turning the wheels counter rotation is easy, just reverse the motors, no need for a transmission either. What type of batteries you use and what size and type of motor you use to keep them charged would be the challenge, but wouldn't it be cool to have regen braking everytime you had to slow down. You could then use a joystick for directional and speed control and locate it where ever you wanted since it would be tied into the propulsion system by wires. With all the world looking at plug-in hybrid cars I would think the technology would be readily available, the cost to put one out would have to be determined to be worth it if you are trying to appeal to the lower priced crowd. Just a thought.

[Scrap]

how about adding a slight v to the front hull so it doesent plow thru water like a max does......higher water speed too