Chinese Import looks interesting

[Mike]

I deleted some posts that were out of line. Instead of focusing on the ATV, the thread once again drifted off topic and moved into the finger pointing, name calling realm. No good will come of that. The thread is now closed.

[lewis]

Lewis, i think you missed his point, what exactly do you think is copyright infringment ?? the drive system looks completely different to me, entirly different layout, what are you saying is copied the hyd brakes maybe ?? or the fact that it has 8 axles ?? i have never seen a car diff in an argo before, did you look at the pics he posted ?? and you can see in the pics that the tub is fiberglass not HDPE (or whatever) the only thing that i see is the same is the little grill thingy on the hood for the exhaust and the hood access hatch, even the drivers seat is set between the second and third axle not the first as Argo and that means smaller cargo area in the back and i think thats why they just have a sideways backseat. i guess were going to have to learn how to compete with companies overseas or were all going to be on the unemployment line, 10,000 dollars is where all these machines should be not the 25-30,000 that argo charges. just to give you an example, a 5 x 10 x 1/4 sheet of HDPE is about 85 bucks, argo molds that sheet in a thermvac oven (which takes about 35 minutes) then charges 1,400 for it, i think that is very excessive dont you ?? and the sheet for the top is about 45 bucks and look what they charge for that. i'm just saying that corporate N. America has gotten out of hand with their profit margins and untill we can change those margins we will not be able to compete.

Note: I think you have the wrong guy. I have not made a comment on this and don't care to.

[Stonewall]

Ronald makes a good point about rediculous markups, but the only reason business move to China is so they can get that sheet of HDPE for 20 bucks and mold it cheaper then sell a lesser product for the same price and make more money off it.

[Ronaldlewis]

Lewis, i think you missed his point, what exactly do you think is copyright infringment ?? the drive system looks completely different to me, entirly different layout, what are you saying is copied the hyd brakes maybe ?? or the fact that it has 8 axles ?? i have never seen a car diff in an argo before, did you look at the pics he posted ?? and you can see in the pics that the tub is fiberglass not HDPE (or whatever) the only thing that i see is the same is the little grill thingy on the hood for the exhaust and the hood access hatch, even the drivers seat is set between the second and third axle not the first as Argo and that means smaller cargo area in the back and i think thats why they just have a sideways backseat. i guess were going to have to learn how to compete with companies overseas or were all going to be on the unemployment line, 10,000 dollars is where all these machines should be not the 25-30,000 that argo charges. just to give you an example, a 5 x 10 x 1/4 sheet of HDPE is about 85 bucks, argo molds that sheet in a thermvac oven (which takes about 35 minutes) then charges 1,400 for it, i think that is very excessive dont you ?? and the sheet for the top is about 45 bucks and look what they charge for that. i'm just saying that corporate N. America has gotten out of hand with their profit margins and untill we can change those margins we will not be able to compete.

[Middlefork Miner]

Well, I gotta agree up to a point on the buy American aspect HOWEVER not much is made here anymore...when you buy fast food, in all likelihood the styrofoam container that's keeping it warm came from China...I went to buy a hand drill at home depot a month or so back, & went in with the idea of buying an American made product, regardless of the cost...The closest I could come was a Black & Decker made in Mexico...It's a sad reality that much of what we buy is made in Asia...if not all of a product, surely SOME of it is made there...I wouldn't doubt at all that the tub of that max, had its origins in China...I haul containers in & out of the Port of Oakland on a daily basis so I have some idea of what I speak...
I remember back in the early sixties, stuff coming from Japan was considered junk...& people would have laughed in your face at the suggestion of buying a car that was made there... ...Same could be said of Germany... Remember when Volkswagens first appeared??? Not so anymore... China is now in the enviable position that Japan & Germany were, post WWII...

As far as that AATV, the pics look nice & I like the jet drive aspect too...I'd sure like to see one in the flesh.

[rdr]

amen john

[6X6]

Though I had responded but the work computer has funny firewalls, guess It was blocked:
Anyways:
Lewis, understood loud and clear, and fully agree.

RobinHood, I do understand your point, and I DO agree to a point, it just comes down to personal experiences. Some members have good luck with the clone engines, others have horrible experiences. Personally, I have poor luck with anything of any nature made in china/taiwan/korea. I have also found after the fact (broken or problems arose) that the NAME BRAND item I purchased was made in china. I now spend extra time (sometimes a LOT) finding something made preferably in the USA, but at least Japan, canada, Europe.
All I would ask is that no matter WHAT COUNTRY the origin is, is that we as a group don't support a company that simply rips off the design of a good company simply to make a cheap buck. Clone motors are (at least mostly) designes bought from brand name MFGs that they no longer use, or are willing to sell out. Did this company compensate ODG? It sure looks like copyright infringement to me.

[mudbug3]

Robinhood02

It looks like a very robust machine with the car engine and drive shaft in it. I also like the dual hydrolic disk brake set up.

[Noel Woods]

That machine looks much better than what I remember. I think the use of auto parts would be a way for our domestic manufacturers to get a heavier duty, longer lived drivetrain. The brakes, frame, pto, etc looked sound too. I hope R.I. and O.D.G. consider this machine as something they may have to compete with.

[Robinhood02]

ok here are some pics of the drive-line





NOTE some of the photo components; brake setup, chain tensioners, the sproket spacers, the PTO shaft, 3 cylinder engine, dual fan liquid cooled, did they copy argo's body too close ?? yes they did, but thats about all they copied, the rest is conciderably different

[Robinhood02]

i'm just not completely convinced that it is a rip off, the driveline in that chinese unit is completely different to argo or max, it uses the driveline from those 3 wheeler small vehicles used in India that look like a 3 wheel peddle taxi , (hopefully you know what i'm saying) their engine trani and diff are all in a line like the 70s cars, i will dig up some pics again, as far as 6x6 or 8x8 goes they will all be relativly the same just due to the layout of the wheels, and as far as bodys go ,well, chev rips off ford and ford rips off dodge and dodge rips off chev (just look at the pickups we have today) (or the PT cruiser and the chev one), The tubs and tops are made of fibreglass ,one nice thing i saw about the chinese design was the power-take-off which was made possible due to the in-line design. Ill go get those pics of the drive-line

[Noel Woods]

The stamp says China, could be the HDPE sheats came from China then were vacuum formed in Michigan???? I don't know. Maybe R.I. can clarify the issue.

[hydromike]

RI has all of their bodies and tubs made out of a place in Michigan if I remember correctly.

Yeah, RI uses a facility in Michigan. The "factory" is basically an assembly plant. That's not to diminish what they do in any way; they just don't have the facilities to do everything there themselves. They get the vacuum formed bodies in a bit of a raw form, and do all of the formal cutting at Depot Street. T-20 casings are cast by SanCast in Coshocton, Ohio last I knew, then final-machined by Buffalo Gear in Sanborn, NY. I believe final assembly of the tranny is done down at RI (I think??). Most (all?) of the sprockets and axles come from G&G in Omaha. I don't really know who manufactures the frames; I never really asked.

I'd be shocked if your Max body was actually made overseas. Not disputing what you see, but rather the genesis of the stamp....

~m

[jpswift1]

RI has all of their bodies and tubs made out of a place in Michigan if I remember correctly.

[Noel Woods]

Its on the inside of the tub, lower hull to be specific, just below the engine. You can see the "China" stamp clearly on my 1999 Max2 near the left rear chain adjuster, you have to have your head inside the tub to see it, but its there. The lettering is about a 1/4" high, I suppose made small and somewhat hidden to obscure it from the average person's line of sight. I have never noticed it before, but this time the tub was cleaner than usual, and I was up close and personal fighting the chain adjuster when I saw the lettering. Needless to say, I was shocked. I guess even R.I. farms out certain things. Maybe the facility in New York is like an "Assembly Plant" more so than the factory. Its a sign of the times.