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**jeffery9076** · 03-01-2011, 07:02 PM

sweet:

can not wait till its done

**Noel Woods** · 03-01-2011, 08:50 PM

Herr Bw6:
Sehr intelligent! As the Germans would say.
As a young 2nd Lt years ago, I worked an assignment at the Patton Museum at Ft Knox. There were several functional Ketts there, I drove one in a Veterans Day Parade. I was overwhelmed at the parade stop by people that wanted to know about the machine. I always found them fascinating. The interlevelled road wheels on the tracks made for a ride comparable to a UTV today, at least the lesser ones.
Tells us more about the drivetrain. I agree with the chain drive issue, I've always felt that a transmission/diff driving a set of sprockets, which turned tracks around idlers and return bogeys, a bullet proof system.

**LarryW** · 03-01-2011, 08:51 PM

That is cool!!!

**Mike** · 03-01-2011, 10:52 PM

There are some wild creations coming out of London and all of them are very cool. I can't wait to see it in the water.

**Bw6** · 03-02-2011, 12:25 AM

Thanks Guys, for the comments. I wasn't sure how it would be received on the forum, it is different, but I always liked the Kettenkrad design. The more I studied it, the more fascinated I became, I'll post a few of my favorite videos so members can see it in action.

My version is totally different from the original. It's lighter, less hp, different drive train, different tracks, amphibious, single speed, automatic, and wider, but it is very similar in how it handles. Like the original when the handlebars are turned to lock it skid steers via a (lockable) differential housed in a transaxle. The original was a front wheel drive, mine is a rear wheel drive. Basically the special tracks I've designed will replace the chains, the rear axle is the only one driven, the others are idlers. It has 31 hp. and a suspension seat. For water travel it will be propelled by the special track design, if I want/need more speed it has an auxiliary output shaft stepped up to 4:1 to drive a single prop. Steering would be accomplished via the front wheel (no spokes) that will act as a rudder.

Originally posted by Noel Woods View Post

Herr Bw6:
Sehr intelligent! As the Germans would say.
As a young 2nd Lt years ago, I worked an assignment at the Patton Museum at Ft Knox. There were several functional Ketts there, I drove one in a Veterans Day Parade. I was overwhelmed at the parade stop by people that wanted to know about the machine. I always found them fascinating. The interlevelled road wheels on the tracks made for a ride comparable to a UTV today, at least the lesser ones.
Tells us more about the drivetrain. I agree with the chain drive issue, I've always felt that a transmission/diff driving a set of sprockets, which turned tracks around idlers and return bogeys, a bullet proof system.

Hi Noel, Boy you sure are lucky to have actually driven a Kett, they sure are an "attention whore". I'm not sure how my will ride compared to the original, but one thing I noticed that with the front suspension it takes a lot of the bounce away, that one normally experences driving most AATV's. The other thing is how quiet it is with no chains/sprockets etc, it sure is a pleasure to drive, and quite fast! It's also nice not to have to skid steer for every little turn, the handling is very precise. I also have the option of driving the front wheel, but will wait to see if I really need it. The rear has 30" tires, the middle 30" tires (raised up 1"), and the front has 22" tires. The reason for this is to lift up the track as it moves to the front, making it easier to turn, and have more steering authority for the front wheel. It will also allow me to climb over large obstacles. However all is not proven yet, that's the problem with original design, you don't know what you have until your almost finished!

**6X6** · 03-02-2011, 06:47 PM

BW6. I don't know HOW I missed this thread before, but that is a very cool machine. If there are two vehicles in the world I have always wanted, it's the Unimog and the Kettenkraftrad (Kettenkrad). (Got the Mog, but the Kettenkraftrad is a touch rarer, I'll have to wait a while I'm sure) I'm sure you can tell why I have gotten so into 6x6s. I LOVE unique but capable machines, and all 3 fit the bill. While people talk about them being designed as throw-away they were very well built machines, and from what I hear were coveted machines to capture by the Allies. Judging by your work this will be well built too. Hope to see what you do with this machine soon.

**Bw6** · 03-02-2011, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by 6X6 View Post

BW6. I don't know HOW I missed this thread before, but that is a very cool machine. If there are two vehicles in the world I have always wanted, it's the Unimog and the Kettenkraftrad (Kettenkrad). (Got the Mog, but the Kettenkraftrad is a touch rarer, I'll have to wait a while I'm sure) I'm sure you can tell why I have gotten so into 6x6s. I LOVE unique but capable machines, and all 3 fit the bill. While people talk about them being designed as throw-away they were very well built machines, and from what I hear were coveted machines to capture by the Allies. Judging by your work this will be well built too. Hope to see what you do with this machine soon.

6x6, Thanks for responding to the thread. Your right about the Allies, especially the USA capturing the Kettenkrad and taking it back to reverse engineer it, test and evaluate this unique machine. The track design was especially interesting, in that it was totally rebuildable. Even today fully restored Ketts are allowed on the streets in Europe, with the same rights as automobiles. Having 6 speeds forward, (3 speed box with high/low range) gave it a tremendous range. For really rough terrain the front wheel could be removed. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that the Kett is so widely known.

Regarding my version, I'm very anxious to get back on this project to discover it's strenght's and weaknesses. I've tried to plan for solutions to potential issues, but only testing can reveal design flaws. Stay tuned as I move ahead with this project.

Here is a video of one of the many factories that assemblied the Kettenkrad.

**6X6** · 03-02-2011, 08:21 PM

It would be cool if you could set yours up so the front wheel would flip up like the Ket's did for bad mud

.
When I first started looking into them I was amazed to find that each track had re-buildable and greaseable needle bearings supporting each track pad's pin. I can't imagine going over and greasing all those little guys, but they were built good for sure. I've found a few for sale over the years, but price was quite prohibitive, (none recently but not aggressively looking either). Now I couldn't afford to sit on one.

**Bw6** · 03-02-2011, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by 6X6 View Post

It would be cool if you could set yours up so the front wheel would flip up like the Ket's did for bad mud

.
When I first started looking into them I was amazed to find that each track had re-buildable and greaseable needle bearings supporting each track pad's pin. I can't imagine going over and greasing all those little guys, but they were built good for sure. I've found a few for sale over the years, but price was quite prohibitive, (none recently but not aggressively looking either). Now I couldn't afford to sit on one.

Yes, they are pricey, if I won the Lottery, it would be in my bucket list.

Regarding your thoughts of lifting up the front wheel for bad mud etc., I'm attaching a few pics that illustrates my approach to really bad terrain. I mocked up a few ideas, to drive the front. All these are mechanically driven, but I could do it with one wheel using a hydraulic motor, but I don't think I will need it.

Attached Files

**Stonewall** · 03-02-2011, 10:22 PM

Won't having 2 wheels on angled forks like that be hard to steer? You might try 1 wheel mechanically driven with something similar to a Rokon.

**Bw6** · 03-02-2011, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by stonewall View Post

Won't having 2 wheels on angled forks like that be hard to steer? You might try 1 wheel mechanically driven with something similar to a Rokon.

Stonewall, Yes you are absolutely right, because of the rake angle it was hard to steer. It would be easier if I changed the tire selection and went to narrow m/c tires, and moved them in. What I found was when I turned to lock the outside tire would lift off the ground so only one tire was driving. That meant that I would have to engage the locking diff. all the time. Also the diff. mounting brackets needed to be very rigid so that when one fork was compressed the other would have to move in unison. Not one of my better designs, lol. It's amazing how one thing leads to another, because of the hard steering I was going to design a power assist...blah, blah, blah. But after critiquing the thing, I decided that it would be easier to just drive the single wheel either hydraulically or mechanically, similar to the Rokon. But hopefully I won't need it. I'm hoping that the tracks will give me enough traction that the front wheel won't impede my progress. Thanks for the comments Stonewall!

**6X6** · 03-03-2011, 02:46 AM

Personally, I hope it works well without having to drive the front wheel, of course if you gear/shaft/chain drive it there's the part of getting gear ratio/tire circumference to match the rear driveline, and if you change tires to a different size front or rear..... I'm NOT that well versed in hydraulic drive to know how close it would have to be, I figure it has some give, not sure how much.
Of course, just going by the original Kett, I personally like the look of a narrow M.C. tire.
Keeping an eye on this one for sure.

**Bw6** · 03-03-2011, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by 6X6 View Post

Personally, I hope it works well without having to drive the front wheel, of course if you gear/shaft/chain drive it there's the part of getting gear ratio/tire circumference to match the rear driveline, and if you change tires to a different size front or rear..... I'm NOT that well versed in hydraulic drive to know how close it would have to be, I figure it has some give, not sure how much.
Of course, just going by the original Kett, I personally like the look of a narrow M.C. tire.
Keeping an eye on this one for sure.

6x6, Were singing from the same songsheet, driving the front wheel is a challenge either hyd/mech. The front wheel has to "lead" a little. If I went this way I would keep the M/C tire, just change it to a motocross or enduro type. Hydraulically I would need to use a "pressure compensated flow control valve" and a mech. tach to match speeds, that along with a solenoid operated directional control valve for F/Rev. With this setup I would only engage the front wheel drive whenever I needed a little help getting out of a hole etc., otherwise the DCV would have a "float spool" position that would allow the front wheel to coast. Mechanically it would be selecting a sprocket ratio that would match. Right now I know of 3 patents covering this setup. Here are two of the links, very interesting reading.Christini All Wheel Drive Motorcycles
How it all started - Öhlins

**Stonewall** · 03-03-2011, 12:14 PM

If you go with hydraulicaly powering the front wheel, you might try to research some of the older John Deere 4020 series tractors. These tractors were available with a hydraulic powered front wheel assist (the rear wheels were still mechanically powered). Tractors with this system are rare, but you might be able to find out how they got the hydraulic fronts in sync with the mechanical rears.

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