Kawasaki FD620D running poorly. Help?!

[gimmegreens336]

You don't have to watch this, but it shows a strong spark right after she died. I think my coils are ok.

[gimmegreens336]

This is unrelated to engine trouble!

My secondary clutch spins fast in neutral, wondering if that's normal. Also, the primary clutch spins real fast while in gear even when belt is not spinning. Is this normal?

Thanks!

Edit: I obviously found out how to upload videos, the problem now is that if I use email to upload videos then 55 seconds is max... The other three I wanted to upload from the ride were closer to 2 minutes so I need a better way to upload.

[gimmegreens336]

Does anyone use an iPhone to upload videos??? This is majorly aggravating. I just switched from an Android phone to this POS and I've had buyers remorse every since. The YouTube app in the app store doesn't have an upload option, (and has a 2.5/5 star rating) there is a button on the actual video for uploading to YouTube but it doesn't recognize my username (I tried at least a dozen times, enough to piss someone off) and I can sign on the YouTube site on the browser, but there is no option for uploading a video on there either.

Help?

[gimmegreens336]

Thanks for all the input Sparkola! The throttle needed a good sanding and some lube and it loosened up completely. I ordered a new set of springs anyway after bending the heck out of mine. That's weird that it burns up the rear plug. I took off the valve covers and the rods are in place, still need to adjust the rear lash I only did the front. I was going wrong by testing for TDC through the valve opening by the rods. I didn't know I was supposed to be sticking something down the spark plug hole. lol Yall gotta explain this stuff to newbs like me!


So I am busy trying to upload videos from last night. It ran better than the night before. Again, it would start and idle like a champ. Rev like a champ. Took her out to ride until she failed to check for a vacuum in the tank. No vacuum. Checked for spark, plenty of spark. Tried to fire her back up, and she did. (This is new, before it wouldn't fire after turning off) Rode her again till she failed. Checked for spark again, plenty of spark. Fired right back up again. Rode some more, started to turn off so I choked her and she stayed running. Let her choke for a sec, turned choke off and went for another ride. This happened time and time again. I could ride with 30% or less throttle forever, she runs for a few minutes under load then wants to turn off, I choke her to stay on, then ride again till it happens again.

This is a fuel problem?

Thinking of replacing the fuel pump just to rule out something crazy. It pumps a good steady flow but maybe it's shorting out like fmints said his buddies did? I don't know... It's SO CLOSE to running right. Just have to choke her to keep her alive when she tries to die under heavy load.

[sparkola]

Sounds exactly like the problems I had about a year or so ago. The throttle handle was gunked up and after cleaning it and graphite lubing it i figured that would fix the problem. When I disconnected the throttle cable from the twist grip it was real smooth. When I hooked it back up, it would bind at wide open throttle. This caused me to check the linkages. They were binding if I recall correctly because it seems that after a time, the linkages tend to bend from repeated pulling. Its like Argo had the geometry messed up between the linkages and didn't do enough R&D on this during developement. I believe there was a recall of sorts for this problem and a new linkage setup was made available. I have the same year Conquest as you by the way. I thought about putting stronger springs on but just bent them back and lubed em up. Haven't had a prob with sticking throttle in 2 years. I had the same problem with breaking off tips for my rear cylinder spark plugs as well. Found an exhaust pushrod had jumped out of the rocker. Not good when a cylinder full of compressed fuel has no where for the spent exhaust gases to go. This is most definately caused by old fuel. My machine only had 45 hours on it when I bought it, but i think the fuel was from 97 LOL( This was 3 years ago) Always run high octane gas. It has less of a tendency to burn or detonate before ignition. It does not burn hotter. Not sure where the other guy came up with that. 4 oz of Marvel mystery oil to every tank of gas will keep the valves from sticking and the pushrods from popping out of place. As for your carb, you really need to sonic clean it to get the jet passageways fully cleaned of debris. I pulled my carb 3 times before I figured this out. The CJ14 plugs are correct for this engine. I would not use a screwdriver to check for TDC. Use something soft like a drinking straw. Sonic cleaners can be purchased from Harbor Freight Tools for about 60 bucks on sale.

[gimmegreens336]

NAPA was fixing to close so I picked the spark plug tester up. Just says to connect the alligator clip to the probe to avoid grounding, then probe the spark plug boot. Should make it light up when the boot makes the spark plug fire?



So I need to run the Argo when I get home until it dies and won't restart. First take gas cap off to check for a vacuum in the gas tank, if all is well then use this probe on one spark plug at a time while trying to turn her over?

Thanks yall

[gimmegreens336]

I am getting stir crazy wanting to go home and work on this thing. I'm a glutton for knowledge and I freaking love working on this machine.. lol

There was no breather hose connected to the tubing right below the gas cap. There is a gas cap, then the 3"? black hose running to the tank itself. On the 3"? black hose there is the place for the breather tube. There was no breather tube there and I swear, if memory serves me, (which it normally doesn't, I've kinda burnt that away :P ) the little hole where a breather line used to be, the hole is plugged..? I will find out for sure when I get home but I swear that's what I remember. Would be too cool if that were the issue.

[plott hound]

plus 1 on the tank vent.had that happen to my lawn tractor and honda foreman.drove me crazy trying to figure it out.

Cool! Down to only one zillion things that can be wrong.

So, when it won't start, put it into neutral, pull a spark plug wire and hold your thumb on the end ... okay, just kidding on holding the thumb on the end - lay the wire next to the engine block, and have a helper crank it a bit for you. Check for spark. Works great at night.

Try to taking the gas cap off - could be that your tank vent is plugged. [edit] Do this when it dies and see if it suddenly gets better. Do this one first. It's really easy and doesn't require opening the hood. I'm voting this most likely of the things that I know.

I've heard of folks having intermittent problems with stuff floating around in the tank that plugs the fuel pickup for short periods.

[gimmegreens336]

I meant to take the gas cap off last night to test this theory! Will try this tonight..

Next, the spark.. I had NAPA order a spark plug tester thingamabobber just a few minutes ago. Will be available in a few hours. Is this the same principle? What is the difference between using this little tester that lights up everytime it sparks? If there is no difference I could save myself $5.. lol

Thanks to everyone.. JohnF - RD - fmints - Spookum - and I'm sure I've forgot to mention others!

[JohnF]

Cool! Down to only one zillion things that can be wrong.

So, when it won't start, put it into neutral, pull a spark plug wire and hold your thumb on the end ... okay, just kidding on holding the thumb on the end - lay the wire next to the engine block, and have a helper crank it a bit for you. Check for spark. Works great at night.

Try to taking the gas cap off - could be that your tank vent is plugged. [edit] Do this when it dies and see if it suddenly gets better. Do this one first. It's really easy and doesn't require opening the hood. I'm voting this most likely of the things that I know.

I've heard of folks having intermittent problems with stuff floating around in the tank that plugs the fuel pickup for short periods.

[gimmegreens336]

I don't think there is a sufficient alternative to blowing out the carb.

I stripped her down last night and soaked her in carb cleaner again. I use that big can with the basket in it. After rinsing with clean water I still noticed some gummy stuff in there. I don't have an air compressor so I bought some compressed canned air and blew her out. WOW - big difference. Pin sized holes that I did not know existed were clearing out everywhere.

So I put her back on there, noticed that the gasket between the carb and top end ripped. I just bought the gasket last week and it was a metal gasket, was surprised to see it ripped already. Gotta replace that.

So I began tuning. She idled and revved smooth as hell. It was noticeably quieter from the front valves that were adjusted and I can tell the rear ones need to be adjusted, based on the little "pings" that I hear coming from that side. Dialed back the fuel mix as it was bogging down with too much gas, presumably from the better carb cleaning. She was revving and idling so smooth, better than she's ever sounded.

So we decided to take a ride.

I took her up and down the street and around the house with no problem. More power than ever.

Then she died. lol

I am seeing a reoccurring theme here. Seems like every time I get her running like a top, she only does so for a few minutes, then dies. When she dies I cannot get her started again immediately. I don't know if she'll start back in an hour or two, but she won't start in the first 20 or so minutes after dying. I truly don't think it's a fuel problem anymore. Clean gas, clean tank, new filter, new fuel line, good flow from pump, clean carburetor - and she runs like a DREAM before shutting down.

I took videos but I think they're useless. They were took while tuning, all it shows is the machine running well.

Now - I don't even know what a "coil" is. I do vaguely remember reading threads about a bad coil and not operating when hot. Is this right? What else could cause the symptoms described? Scratch the symptoms described before this post, I believe I had done a sh***y job of cleaning the carburetor. The new problem is that it will run for 10 minutes before shutting down then I can't get her re-started. (The temp gauge shows nothing abnormal)

Thanks again in advance!

[gimmegreens336]

Thanks so much to everyone.

I am going to re-install the carb tonight and see if I have similar symptoms (full choke, low idle only). If I have the same problems I will uninstall the carb again and take pictures of everything I'm doing. I set the float according to the manual but some of the language is spanish to me. I believe I did exactly as the manual says but if I can't get her to run this evening I am going to start from scratch with pictures on here to confirm I'm doing it correctly.


I'm with you Eddie, I don't think improper valve adjustment is my problem but I'm happy to adjust them for the learning experience. Also I'm glad I took the covers off just to rule out a rod out from under a rocker arm. I am def getting good flow from the pump, that's confirmed.. When the motor wouldn't turn over at all, not with choke or anything, I could pour some fuel into the carb throat and it would sputter like it wanted to start but not fully get to idling. It's so sporadic, one day it wants to start and idle, the next day it doesn't even want to idle. The best I know right now is that it will idle in full choke only. (Adjusting idle-mix screw doesn't make a significant difference, even when opened 3-4 full turns)

Gotta go, will check back.

Thanks yall

[eddieb1965]

You need to find out what the problem really is.I would start engine and dribble some gas directly into the throat of the carb and apply some throttle to see if it revs up.That will tell you if it is carb or fuel pump related.I havent saw an engine do what you are describing by having improper valve adjustment.If it is fuel related,I would start by taking off the gas cap (make sure system is vented),change fuel filter (again)and make sure the line has no pinches or pinholes.blow back up the fuel line into the tank(I have seen plastic shavings where they drill the tank block fuel port in bottom of tank.Lastly have someone crank engine with line off the carb and into a bottle and see if it is pumping fuel or enough fuel.

[JohnF]

... Actually let me ask this: Could this be a float problem? ...

Yes.

Do you have the service manual? Page 2-8 describes how the carburetor works.

2-13 describes float adjustment.

Ok, so lets do a little troubleshooting.
If the float was stuck closed then it wouldn't run at all. Yours is running at low idle.
If the float didn't open enough to allow a fuel rate enough for high idle then it would probably reach high idle and then surge. Unless it was really bad, then it would die.
The float level affects the "accelerator pump" function of the carburetor. This functions is accomplished via an immersion tube (huh, the parts blowup in the manual above calls it an Emarsion Tube???) that sits in a reservoir. When call for, the fuel is sucked out of this reservoir. As the level drops it un-ports air holes in the tube effectively increasing air. What is trying to happen here is when you open the throttle the air flow can accelerate faster than the fuel which is heavier so the carb meters a bunch more fuel at this change over. The important part (sigh) is that the reservoir level is the same as the float level. If the level is too low, then the air/fuel gets too lean and the engine dies. If this is the case, you should be able to creep slowly to high idle.

As a side note, the main jet is in the bottom of the float bowl. If the float is set too low the engine will run fine on the level but die when the jet un-ports. Probably pointed downhill or port side high. That's really a function of the float bowl geometry in the design but a too low float adjustment screws that up.

I'm still thinking bypass holes are plugged. Second guess is fuel pump or float valve not allowing enough fuel flow through.

And for draining I usually unplug the fuel pump and let the engine run it mostly dry.

... one of the valves will be loose and the other one would tight. ...

Wouldn't both be loose at TDC of the compression stroke? I think RD is suggesting TDC of the compression stroke for this reason.

[Edit] shoot, I see there was a bit of conversation about the above. I just went back to catch up. Sorry for bring it up again, it's just that I think for any 4-cycle engine there has to be a TDC where both are loose (compression stroke) and this is what prompted my comment.

[fmints]

Ok, TDC is when the piston is at its most highest point inside the cylinder. you can get the piston to TDC (Top Dead Center) by placing a screwdriver carefully inside of the sparkplug hole,, then rotate the clutch (which is rotating the flywheel, and crank) until the piston is at it's most highest point, by looking at the screwdriver. when you do this, one of the valves will be loose and the other one would tight. Adjust the one with the biggest gap to whatever the manual says. then rotate the clutch again until the screwdriver goes down an back up again. When this happens you will adjust the other valve. after you have adjusted it, rotate the clutch again to check the first valve, then rotate and check the second valve again. It should all measure out good. Then go to the other side of the engine and do the same procedure again.

I wouldn't mess with the carb at all until you have the valves dialed in, and trace I would trace the ground to find the source and then put it back. Im going to PM you my number incase you need help.