Kawasaki FD620D running poorly. Help?!

[gimmegreens336]

Saturday night: I went out to do the valve job and gap my plugs. I was hoping it could limp into the shop but that didn't happen. I had to do a bush repair by cell phone light. I didn't have service to check the site and didn't know what TDC was. I had Spookum's phone number but I replaced my phone and didn't have anyone to reach out to. Anyway, I pulled the valve covers off for inspection. Everything seemed to be correct. Rods in place, when I spun the primary clutch they went through their motions.

Yesterday: Went back out during daylight after reading the comments. Still no luck for finding TDC. I can find what I assume is TDC but I have no proof. I don't know what the flywheel is for me to look for marks. Everything down there is covered in a layer of dried mud anyway, hard to identify marks or writing. I can stick long skinny screwdrivers down by the rods but I cannot identify a "piston." There was a potential "piston" that moved the screwdriver a LITTLE BIT while rotating the clutch but it probably only moved a half inch up and down, how much movement is in the said piston? I can spin the primary clutch until both rocker arms are loose, both valves are up. I checked the lash at this point and it was approx .014-.016. I adjusted the front set to .010 and didn't mess with the back set. I may have adjusted them at some point different than TDC so I didn't proceed incase I have to go back and re-adjust them.

Front side valves:

Back side valves:

Back side valve cover, a random washer on the top right bolt? (No other bolt on the valve covers had washers on them) I guess I removed the wire before I snapped the pic but there was a ground? wire on the bottom right bolt too.



After the covers were buttoned up and the plugs were gapped I tried to start her.

She will run in full choke only. Will not run un-choked, will not run when revved (choked or un-choked).

Checked the fuel flow, looked like there was a lot of air in the fuel coming out of the line by the carb. Removed the in-line filter by the carb and that took the air out of the flow.

Still won't run except in full choke with no throttle.

Took the carb back off and that's where we're at now. I took it apart and cleaned it again.

Actually let me ask this: Could this be a float problem? When I take the carb off and drain the fuel from the bowl before disassembly, I use the fuel drain screw to drain it. I bet there is only around 1 oz of fuel that comes out when I drain it before disassembly. Should there be more fuel that drains out? Is my bowl not filling properly? I've seen a few threads on here about this particular carb and the float assembly failing.

Let me know what yall think!

Thanks for all the help!

[JohnF]

The carburetor has two main circuits: idle and high idle. If you look along the back of the barrel you'll see few tiny holes that align with the bottom of the butterfly valve. This is how the carb makes the switch between circuits. If your idle circuit where clear and your high idle circuit plugged then the carburetor wouldn't make the switch and would act just as you've described.

[Rock Doctor]

As for doing both intake and exhaust at the same TDC, you wont be able to because one valve is going to be super loose and the other is going to be super tight.

But then again, Kawi maybe different than the Briggs. I guess you should always follow the book.

I know little to nothing about Briggs, so I'm going to have to assume your last line is correct, lol.

As for doing both valves at the same time............. If your Piston is at TDC on the Compression Stroke, BOTH the Intake and Exhaust valves are fully closed and the Rocker Arms are loose. At the 2:00 mark in my vid, you can see me wiggle both Rocker Arms at the same time. I guess little differences in engines can make big differences in maint procedures, lol.

RD

[fmints]

Fred, please correct me if I'm wrong here. I have it even thought about this In a while.
On the Kawi, don't you bring the piston to TDC on the Compression Stroke, and then check/set both the intake and exhaust valves?

RD

The book probably states that for the Kawi, and I mostly work on Briggs, but valve lash is pretty much valve lash. As for doing both intake and exhaust at the same TDC, you wont be able to because one valve is going to be super loose and the other is going to be super tight. Then when you do the other side and then recheck all of your measurements, you will still be out of adjustment. Each push rod has to have the same clearance. If not then one will stay open too long or not open long enough, (your typical backfiring, stuttering, hard to start, loss of power symptons). I always do one valve at a time bringing that one valve to TDC and make adjustments, and after I do all four valves, I go back and recheck each one. Once I made adjustments, I recheck the valves when I service the machine, or sometimes for S$*# and giggles.

Cbass's Bandolera was acting up last April at Busco, lossing power and backfiring something fierce. After about 2 hours of head rubbing and the usual "What about this and what about that?", a 30 minute Valve lash adjustment had him back in the game, and with a more responsive throttle and with more power and torque. I haven't been doing this all of my life, just over the past few years, and this procedure has worked on all engines that I have rebuilt or tinkered with be it ATV or Motorcycle.

But then again, Kawi maybe different than the Briggs. I guess you should always follow the book.

[plott hound]

yupper,compression stroke is what you want to set the valves.remember to also to this when engine is cold.if the valves are real sticky forget about the snake oil additives.my luck is really bad and this stuff never works for me.pull the heads and do a valve job,then you can physically clean all the gunk off the valve train.its a real nice easy project if the valves are not burnt or the guides are not wore out.

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/argo-atvs/21518-pulled-trigger-conquest-7.html

[Rock Doctor]

Ya, it was bugging me so I went and checked.
Bring one piston to TDC on the Compression Stroke, check/set both valves, then move on to the second cylinder and repeat.


RD

[Rock Doctor]

Fred, please correct me if I'm wrong here. I have it even thought about this In a while.
On the Kawi, don't you bring the piston to TDC on the Compression Stroke, and then check/set both the intake and exhaust valves?

RD

[fmints]

Sorry, all I'm doing there is turning the engine over by hand, the screwdriver is touching the top of the piston. When the screwdriver stops moving, I know the piston is at TDC (Top Dead Center)

To caveat what RD said: When the screwdriver stops moving up, the piston is at top dead center. Also, you have to check both the exhaust and intake valve's lash, so you have to move the piston twice to set the other valve. So move one valve to TDC and check the lash and then move the other valve to TDC and check the lash. Then go to the other side and do the other piston. I've learned this procedure from this dude, Lawn Mower Repair Valve Adjustment Briggs and Stratton V-Twin - YouTube, when I was having starting, loss of power and backfiring problems with my 16hp V-Twin Briggs. Each engine model has specific measurement settings for the lash, which I think that RD has you covered on that.

Regular oil changes keeps my valves from sticking, but remedies like the ATF, and seafoam works well. Seafoam is used in the oil a few hours of use prior to the oil change, every 100 hours or at the end or beginning of season (once a year) and running Seafoam in your fuel tank every 5 tank refills or when storing the machine for a long while. Really any fuel stabilizer will work, but I prefer Seafoam.

Fred

[Rock Doctor]

Sorry, all I'm doing there is turning the engine over by hand, the screwdriver is touching the top of the piston. When the screwdriver stops moving, I know the piston is at TDC (Top Dead Center)

Seafoam will work fine. Another option is to add a little ATF to your fuel. Automatic Transmition Fluid, 1/4 to 1/2 liter to a tank.
The valves will only start acting up if you run old fuel or have water In your gas.

RD

[gimmegreens336]

I've familiarized myself with the parts diagram of the valve/camshaft assembly. I see what the rocker shaft and arms are, I see 2 valves per cylinder, I see how the cam gear operates the rods to "stroke" the rocker arms back and forth. I love learning about this stuff.

Question: On your video, you must be "running your piston up to top dead center" with the screw driver before you wiggle the rocker arms and measuring the gap? I don't quite understand what I need to do to run the piston to top dead center. Just need a little clarification before I ditch this fall party.



Edit: Can I spray anything on the valves/arms/etc to lubricate? What can't I spray? Lewis said these valves are notorious for getting sticky. There is seafoam in my gas now and I poured a little a few times through the carb.

[gimmegreens336]

Nice! Thanks for the break-down.. I am supposed to be going to a fall party this evening but I'd rather go out to the Argo... I'm anxious to check this stuff out. Hopefully I'll get out there this evening and I will report back.

Thanks a ton RD

[Rock Doctor]

Edit: It doesn't run at all under load. If it's still able to limp around with a skipped pushrod it doesn't seem that's my problem. It runs with low RPM, I'd say anything over about 30% throttle and it bogs down and dies. (Except when in neutral, it revs to WOT just fine in neutral... dies under load)

This is worth checking, if for no other reason than to rule it out.
Very easy to check for damaged/Skipped Pushrods and set valves at the same time.

Pull your Sp Plugs
Pull your Valve Covers off (10mm)
Look at your Rocker Arms, There is one for each Valve, with a common shaft running through both (On each cylinder). One side of the rocker arms push down to open your Inlet/Exhaust Valves, the other side of each rocker arm is pushed up by a Pushrod witch gets its movement from your Camshaft.
If a Pushrod is out from under a rocker Arm, you will see it. If the pushrod is bent, you might not see it but if you reach down and turn your Primary Clutch to make the engine turn over, you will see the Rocker Arms slowly go through the motions of opening/closing your valves.

If all is well (I suspect it's NOT), you might as well check your Valve Lash while your here.
Get yourself a 10 Thou Feeler Guage (.010"), and a 9mm wrench
Run your piston up to Top Dead Center on the Compression Stroke (Both Valves will be closed) (You will be able to wiggle the rocker Arms by hand)
Try to slip the Feeler Guage between the Rocker Arm, and the end of the Valve Stem. If it slides in very easy, loosen the 9mm nut on the rocker arm and slowly turn the end of the adjustment shaft down snug (NOT tight, you need to be able to pull the feeler back out and push it back in) to the feeler guage, tighten the 9mm nut. If you can not get the feeler guage in there, loosen the 9mm nut, back off the adjustment shaft a bit, get the feeler in there, then snug down the shaft on the feeler, tighten 9mm nut.

This might help a bit

RD

[gimmegreens336]

Wait a minute, something is tickling my memory here. Not sure if I want to read all your old posts, might be faster to just ask.
Have you checked your valves and Pushrods?
These 20hp Kawi Engines will Start beautifully, Idle like a dream, and run like a POS under load if you have skipped a Pushrod out from under a Rocker Arm, or bent a Pushrod.

RD

Edit: It doesn't run at all under load. If it's still able to limp around with a skipped pushrod it doesn't seem that's my problem. It runs with low RPM, I'd say anything over about 30% throttle and it bogs down and dies. (Except when in neutral, it revs to WOT just fine in neutral... dies under load)

[gimmegreens336]

The valve cover firewall side with oil? on it:



The first two pics are the plug with oil on it, it's the plug on the front by the winch. The second two pics are the plug on the back.

[gimmegreens336]

I have not messed with the valves. I've never done any of this, the carb and throttle control assembly was my first time too. If people feel like it could be a rod I will start the research.