Kawasaki FD620D running poorly. Help?!

[gimmegreens336]

Hope I didn't mess up the explanation on the throttle linkage to much

RD

No, that's what I was hoping for. There isn't much going on around the carb when I twist the throttle and thank goodness that's normal. I am going to remove the control panel assembly, inspect the governor arm, and do a good cleaning of all those arms/springs/levers before patching her up. I get off work in about 7 hours, hopefully have her put together tonight and begin tuning.

It sounds like you're telling me that clipping the end off the solenoid is, in fact, the right thing to do.

Last, I will try to loosen the screws assembling the throttle handle. I probably did tighten them thoroughly thinking the handle would slide off if I didn't tighten them. I was going to run some sand paper through the grooves that allow the handle and cable to turn, see if I can't route it out a little more.

I'm excited to get working again tonight. I really wanna get her turned over to see if my original issue is fixed.

Thanks for chiming in RD!

[Rock Doctor]

I ended up snipping the end of the solenoid. Neighbor said it's not repairable. He said he'd snip the end or find a bolt that fits, and a cool-down idle for about a minute before shutting down should prevent back-fire. (We'll see!) Worst case, if it diesels or back fires like crazy I will just buy a new solenoid.

I won't say that snipping the end of the Anti-Backfire Solinoid is the right thing to do, but I will say that if you check any of the 5 Conquest engines I have, you will find that all of them have the Solinoid Pin Clipped off.

The last run at Busco before the Conquest took her final sh**, the throttle was sticking at wide open. It happened when we put a new driver behind the sticks and it was a mess. We took the handle off at Busco to look at it, didn't notice anything out of the normal. After reassembly, it has perm cruise control. The throttle does not return to idle when you release the handle, it sticks. (But it's the handle sticking, or the throttle cable - the arms and springs by the carb are operating as normal, something is sticking somewhere else) You have to forcefully twist back to idle. I was thinking if I took the handle back off, got WD40 down into the cable, and sprayed the arms and springs in front of the carb that everything would be ok. It's not! lol

Just a thought, If you tighten the little screws on the hand throttle assembly too tight, the throttle twist grip will not return freely.

So does the handle throttle control more than just the throttle valve in the carb? I ask this because there is maybe 1" of movement in the throttle shaft, moving the throttle valve from closed to open. With just a very small twist of the wrist, I can open and close the throttle valve completely. So essentially, the last 80% of my throttle twist does not move the throttle valve. If there is another function the throttle serves fine, otherwise something is funny.

The Throttle cable runs to a linkage on the Governer, when you pull the cable, the governor linkage moves. There is a spring that connects the governor linkage to the throttle linkage. If you are looking at it and testing while the engine is NOT running, it would appear as though there is not much happening at the throttle.

Hope I didn't mess up the explanation on the throttle linkage to much

RD

[gimmegreens336]

It's all good Mike! I've got a whole new host of problems now so hopefully I'll fill the thread right back up with pics.


Fred: The "strip"! lol - No, I've not been to one. Other than the one at Busco! Good advice on testing for carb leaks. I planned on running her last night and testing until we found some throttle issues. (Explained below) I already anticipate an issue with the gasket in the middle of the carb. I bought a new one, but it's so detailed and the ledges are so thin, it seems tough to get it to seal perfectly. I ended up snipping the end of the solenoid. Neighbor said it's not repairable. He said he'd snip the end or find a bolt that fits, and a cool-down idle for about a minute before shutting down should prevent back-fire. (We'll see!) Worst case, if it diesels or back fires like crazy I will just buy a new solenoid. Man I do appreciate your help! Thanks for keeping up man!


The last run at Busco before the Conquest took her final sh**, the throttle was sticking at wide open. It happened when we put a new driver behind the sticks and it was a mess. We took the handle off at Busco to look at it, didn't notice anything out of the normal. After reassembly, it has perm cruise control. The throttle does not return to idle when you release the handle, it sticks. (But it's the handle sticking, or the throttle cable - the arms and springs by the carb are operating as normal, something is sticking somewhere else) You have to forcefully twist back to idle. I was thinking if I took the handle back off, got WD40 down into the cable, and sprayed the arms and springs in front of the carb that everything would be ok. It's not! lol

I am slacking because I should have videoed what I'm about to try and explain. First, I haven't been on a research binge yet. I will edit this post if I find my answer no the site.

So does the handle throttle control more than just the throttle valve in the carb? I ask this because there is maybe 1" of movement in the throttle shaft, moving the throttle valve from closed to open. With just a very small twist of the wrist, I can open and close the throttle valve completely. So essentially, the last 80% of my throttle twist does not move the throttle valve. If there is another function the throttle serves fine, otherwise something is funny.

The carb is put together and installed, including the throttle and choke shafts. Everything seems correct. I don't love how "sticky" the throttle valve seems. I would love friction-less movement. The throttle valve doesn't seat at a perfect perpendicular angle to the carb bottom. When it "closes" it is slightly tilted. I guess this is normal? Just want to confirm.

Here I go on another research binge. Fred, the Argo is giving me an opportunity to learn some things for sure!

[Mike]

I'm sorry. I just finished moving photos in the engine section of the gallery to their own album here: Carb Rebuild - Amphibious ATV Pictures but unfortunately, it destroyed the links to the photo in this thread which means you will have to relink them. If I knew which photos went where I would do that for you but I don't. Sorry for the inconvenience. It was completely my fault and I know how time-consuming this can be.

If you have more photos to share, and I hope you do even though I ruined your hard work to this point, if you will put them in the album I created in your gallery, they will be safe there. Usually if there are a lot of detailed photos I will create an album to store them in so that the main gallery isn't full of dozens of detailed shots so that's what I was doing with your photos. If I realized how many were linked here before I did that, I would have waited.

Sorry again.

[fmints]

Strip, in my words,, meant "Dragstrip" or "Race Track"

As for the Carb Cleaner, I hope that you removed all rubber from the carb, because the concentrated cleaner will kill the rubber.

A fine wire brush, or soft wire brush, or a tooth brush will be needed to clean the black exhaust buildup inside the carb. Everything should be bright and clean when your finish. Q-tips won't hurt either just make sure that there is no cotton strings left behind. It all looks good thou buddy.

Good info on the spark plugs from Dan. After all of this, you should be rocking and rolling.

I normally use Purple Power or any degreaser with the assistance of a pressure washer, and relube everything that needs it. I run my engine while hose it all down and monitor the engine. If the engine surges or acts funny while hosing it down, then more than likely you sprayed into the carb somehow, or you have a faulty gasket somewhere. This happened to me before and I ended up replacing the intake to carb gasket, along with head gaskets. I immediately noticed a spike in my 23hp Kohler's performance.

The fuel filter should work also, so you shouldn't run into any issues there.

I also hit the inside of the throttle cable with compressed air, then WD40 or similar lubricant, and follow with more compressed air to ensure that the lubricant gets deep down inside the cable.

Hopefully, your neighbor can solder the wire back onto the fuel solenoid. With all these improvements, you should be running at 100% in no time.

Good luck, buddy, can't wait til it's all back together!!!

[gimmegreens336]

you ever been to the "strip"??

I don't know what the "strip" is - I mean, I've been to the "strip" at beaches and some bigger cities, just slang for where all the bars and clubs and action are I guess. What strip you referring to?


So here are a few shots from the action last night. I bought a can of liquid carb cleaner, comes with a basket you jsut drop your metal into and let it sit for approx 20 mins then rinse with water. It really cleaned the crap out of the metal parts!

A little residue at the bottom of the bowl but doesn't seem too bad.


Dirty parts


Clean parts!


This goes to Dan67 - you were right on the money with plugs. I have a FD620D motor, which would recommend a particular set of plugs generally. However, I have a specific FD620D-DS12 which calls for the BMR4A style plug, I went with the NGK brand NGK 5728. Look at the difference! The plugs that were installed when I got the machine were way too long.


This is the broken solenoid. My neighbor told me to bring it to him and he'll hook me up.


I was curious about the filter. Is a fuel filter a fuel filter? The one installed is a fine wire mesh filter, the one given to me looks like a paper filter? (The new filter is closer, the old filter is in the back) The new filter is roughly the same size, slightly smaller. Would it be ok to run the other type of filter?


My throttle cable has always stuck pretty bad, I sprayed some WD40 and it fixed it. Question is, what is best to clean all this crap off with? A degreasing chemical or soap and water or what?




I think that's it for now folks.

Thanks for keeping up!

[fmints]

What are you doing up at 0200 besides helping me diagnose my busted machine?? lol

Yeah, about that!!!!!!! I dont sleep much when I'm on vacation.

I hope all works out ok for you and you get to make that shake down. Speaking of shake down,,,, you ever been to the "strip"??

[gimmegreens336]

What are you doing up at 0200 besides helping me diagnose my busted machine?? lol

I agree with you, I'm gonna reach out to someone to solder the wire back into the solenoid and test it out.



I just bought a can of sea foam, new fuel line and liquid carb cleaner. I am fixing to start some research on the rubber I'll need to replace to reassemble the carb. I'm excited to get it disassembled and cleaned up this evening.

I could potentially have her patched back together for a shake-down run this evening if I can locate the correct plugs locally. My specific engine is the FD620D-DS12. Fixing to do some research on the best plugs for this motor.

Once I get it patched back together I can start some of the things recommended.

Thanks guys!

[fmints]

What is up with bypassing the fuel solenoid? Capping it or whatever? What happens if it doesn't shut when I turn the ignition switch off? I've read some mention of a kit for bypassing it, or some DIY for bypassing. No details or pictures that I could find.

Edit: People are recommending to just grind or snip off the top half of that pin. They say the engine may "diesel"? or whatever - aka: keep running when you turn her off. They also say it could flood something or another. They recommend installing an inline fuel shutoff valve if you are going to bypass the solenoid. Does this sound correct? That's a $5 fix, whereas a new solenoid will be $77. If someone agrees this is ok I will do it.

Thanks!

Even though I'll rig up something on my machine, I would not reccommend do the same to some else's, especially when its dealling with fuel. Maybe you can look on ebay, or even www.partstree.com for the new fuel solenoid. Have you tried fixing the wire ( soldering the ends if it needs it ,,, and cleaning the solenoid and hitting it with compressed air). Im willing to bet that you can fix your current "f-s", and not spend a dime, well with the exception of some carb cleaner.

[gimmegreens336]

What is up with bypassing the fuel solenoid? Capping it or whatever? What happens if it doesn't shut when I turn the ignition switch off? I've read some mention of a kit for bypassing it, or some DIY for bypassing. No details or pictures that I could find.

Edit: People are recommending to just grind or snip off the top half of that pin. They say the engine may "diesel"? or whatever - aka: keep running when you turn her off. They also say it could flood something or another. They recommend installing an inline fuel shutoff valve if you are going to bypass the solenoid. Does this sound correct? That's a $5 fix, whereas a new solenoid will be $77. If someone agrees this is ok I will do it.

Thanks!

[gimmegreens336]

may as well be the fuel solenoid that mounts to the carb

After more research and talking to folks this is exactly what it is. When there is power to it (when you turn your key) the needle valve pops in, allowing fuel to flow. If it had a short it could pop in and out, unrestricting and restricting the flow of fuel into the carb. If the fuel solenoid was in fact doing that, this could be the reason the machine was randomly turning off.

On a side note: the bigger fella that was with me at Busco was the one turning the wrench when the wire broke off the end. He is notoriously ogre-ish and un-gentle when it comes to everything, big fella don't know his own strength. I still speculate that he may have actually broken it. lol - I do believe it must have been brittle to have fallen apart like it did though...

Also, does a bad fuel solenoid have the ability to foul a plug to the extent that my plug was fouled? Either way, I'm going to followup on all the recommendations here. I want her running top!

[fmints]

Im not a super pro on the "Kaws" but the broken thingermickjigger, may as well be the fuel solenoid that mounts to the carb, if your carb has one. It is connected to a 12v supply that comes on when the key is on. If this wire had a short, it could very well open and then close the fuel solenoid, stopping the flow of fuel to your carb causing the engine to hesitate or just cut off.

The oil in the carb is from the blow off tube from the engine ( the black curved hose that connects to the carb. If the engine is too full of oil, or is turned on its side or at a crazy angle, oil will come out of the tube and into the carb. i had this problem with my first briggs 16hp. I resolved it by putting a homemade oil catch can on the tube from the engine.

The water and oil mixture!!!! dont know where the water came from but if water is in your carb, maybe you should look at your carb gasket that mounts the carb to the intake manifold. the water probably came in from god knows where, but definitely isn't good for your engine.

Its good that you are making progress, I hope this info aids you.

[gimmegreens336]

Did some basic disassembly last night. Removed all the fuel line from the gas tank to the carb, removed the gas tank, pump and filter. Also removed the air filter, housing, and carburetor. The following pics are what I've found so far. I probably don't need to explain my newness to all of this - I'm learning as I go, mostly thanks to you guys.

This is one end of the fuel line is ate up. The section between the fuel filter and fuel pump had some cracks in it, we replaced that at Busco. Otherwise, no other visible issues to the fuel line. Replacing it anyway just to rule out a disintegrated fuel line.



Hard to see here, but there was a decent amount of thin liquid on the black metal plate. I didn't smell like gas per-say, it didn't have much of a smell at all. I guess it could be gas/oil mixture? Or water? I don't know..



Seems like a lot of oil around the lip/rim.



Forgot about this pic, you can see the clear-ish liquid pooled/bubbled up.



Some stuff I was just taking pictures of just in case they help. I really don't know lol



Alright, this is the worst thing so far. I can't remember what the service manual called this part, it was a long name.. It's the piece you unplug (unscrew) from the carb before removal. The wire on the thingamabobber was very brittle and snapped while we were removing it. I obviously need to replace this part. I followed the wire and it seems to be tied to everything. If someone with experience with this part would help that would be awesome! Furthermore, if the wire was that brittle and didn't maintain a good connection this may be my problem? Would be nice if the problem were identified.



Dirty!



Couple randoms of the carb.




Ok, and right in the dead center of this picture are two threaded holes where it looks like something should be screwed into or mounted or something. Any guesses on what is missing? Or is this all good?





That's it for now folks. Any help with the broken thingamabobber would be awesome.

Would like to take apart the carb too, any tips or tricks would be cool.

I haven't forgotten about all the advice prior to this post. I will follow up on everything advised!

Thanks!

[6X6]

Gimme, I'm watching this one since that was the most extreme case of plug damage I've seen yet. I have to expect it's too hot a plug or detonation. If there's a lot of carbon buildup in the cylinder it can cause this. Get it running on a new plug and use Seafoam, or just use some clean ATF poured into the carb. (not one big cup at once, just pour a thin stream till it starts bogging down, let it clear up and repeat. Expect a "Little" smoke. Thank Brian (Racerone3) if that works for ya.

[gimmegreens336]

You the man Lewis! I am in the middle of trying to talk John (the little brown guy that was with me) and his wife into letting me borrow their enclosed garage for a few weeks. They don't park vehicles in it! I'd love to have an area protected from the elements for a little while when I break her down.

I'm going to replace all of the fuel line this evening if all goes well. I see information all over the place talking about fuel line degradation so that'll be a good start before getting into the complicated things.

Lewis, I like your point about no (e) in gasoline when my manual was written in 1997. What do you other fellas think? I've always ran 93 in my lawn mowers and other small engines, but only because that's what my family does. Is it possible that the 87 recommendation in the manual is because gasoline was different in 1997?

Thanks to all of you guys! I'm pumped to learn more about this!