35HP Vanguard Mods?

[Hollywoodc]

Nubs Im gonna give it another run today when the parking lot dies down and try focusing a bit better on the transition.

The Primary Clutch is an 1190 Comet/Salsbury which are Distributed by QDS. Luckily, QDS is located about 8 miles from me. I took the Clutch to Roy at QDS and he said everything looks good aside from sanding the sheaves to get the gloss off. I asked him about the 3/16 gap between the new Max1067M2 Belt, which is the suggested belt to use with this setup. He explained to me how to mod the outer shaft to get the outer sheave to sit closer and it seemed to make a good difference in performance.

I have the Idle set at 1200 RPM and the springs I have are 1850 RPM engagement. I asked about tuning it to engage faster and or if it will affect performance better or worse. The buggy is not for Drag racing but more for Offroad touring and duning.
He explained 2 options I could go with to tune it to engage quicker.
1. Replace one of the springs to a lighter one along with changing the Arm to a Lighter arm which will get it to 1700 engagement. $80
2. Or, Just replacing the spring which will get it to engage at 1500 RPM. $35

Im not quit sure if its even worth swapping springs out or if the engine will bog at the lower 1500 RPM.

What do you think?

[Nubs]

Well we've spent a fair amount of time over the yr's on the dunes @ Silver lake in Mich and the only way I found to tune CVT clutches/engines was on the sand. nuttin' eats up more HP than soft sand

[Hollywoodc]

So I put the cut key back in for the timing advance to record and make note of how it feels.
Now, this is my first Vanguard engine so I'm not really sure what to expect.

But here is a video of another parking lot run with me recording the Tach.
Sorry so shaky, no GoPro.
The squeal is from the belt being a bit too tight. I have to find the happy spot in the belt tension to where it doesn't squeal or rotate.
As you can see, it moves and jumps up to 4g, but there isn't enough room for me to get past that point.
I'm pretty much close to WOT and you can hear the engine whining up as the buggy goes faster.

Should I be getting more torque below 4g, or is that where a cam comes in?
I feel like it hits a wall at 4K.
It'll still keep going past 4K but it feels like it just takes awhile to get there.
Or maybe I should change the spring on the Secondary Clutch.
Or maybe I need more Advance on the Timing?
Or maybe my expectations are just to high! LOL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsTKjd1Zgno

[Hollywoodc]

Ok guys, been awhile!
Had to pull minimal sleep and an all nighter adding the new parts just to make it out with my Buddy to Pismo Sand Dunes here in Cali!
So since my last posts I've added the new Performance Cam from Performance V-twin, new Lifters, Larger Billet Rods, and New one piece exhaust Valves. I already had new Valve shims. They were previously set at .003. The new Exhaust Valve needed a considerable amount of adjustment to seat against the exhaust port.
I set the new adjustment to .005. On the Mudbuddy site, it says that the settings for the 35hp's valve adjustment should be from .004-.006, .005 being the Happy Medium.

I was only able to get one Compression test done before loading up to leave. Barely even had a chance to shower before the guys were screaming "Let's Go Already!!!"

So compression read 90PSI. Not good I'm thinking, I know that these engines should be between 100-140. So I'm not really sure if my tester is even working right or the fitting was tight enough. No time to Trouble shoot, had to get out of Dodge!

It feels great, definitely has a performance increase with the Cam along with all the other mods. I'm still only Maxing out at about 4500RPMs WOT.

I brought all the Mikuni jets so I'd like to play with the main to see if it helps any.
Don't remember if the RPM's should increase with it Richer or leaner?
Plugs look pretty good but I prefer to run it on the Richer side rather then Lean so not to blow the head.

Not sure how much of a perf difference it would make adjusting the valves. I remember Al Hodges, Performance V Twin, saying to set the valves at .003. MudBuddy Forum, which run the same engines, say to adjust the valves from, .004-.006. So I set them at .005 happy Medium.
I think I'm gonna try .003 and see if that helps with max RPM and or performance.

[Hollywoodc]

Everyone is tripping out on how great it sounds with the new exhaust.

I changed the Main Jet from 420, 430, 530. Feels good when I'm punching it with the 520. I didn't have anything between 430-520 to get a Variable. And I rather run it on the richer rather then Lean.
I'm still only topping off at 4500RPM's! But when I'm at a stand still and pop the throttle, I can get it to rev up too 5200.
I also tried dropping the valve adjustment to .003, It didn't help with an increase in RPM and felt like it lost some power climbing and took a few more turn overs when starting the engine up.

Any ideas on how to pull a few more RPM's out of it?

A little jump, wasn't full throttle. Just enough to make the 10 year old passenger almost piss his pants. Definitely fun time with the new engine mods!
CMC Fab & Design Pismo Mini Testing - YouTube

[Hollywoodc]

I already past a Funco Built long Travel Rhino with kings through the whoops section. He gave me thumbs up at the end of the whoops! I had a smile from ear to ear knowing he probably had about 10g in aftermarket stuff on his rig.!
Gonna be doing some more Shock tuning, adding some Compression to smoother it out through the whoops.
I'm still researching where to get the other 500-1000RPM's from. It's maxing out at 4500 now. If I could get it in the 5000 range then I will be more then happy and I'm sure it will float across the whoops!
Any suggestions?

Can't seem to get the YouTube Viewer screen to link from my phone, it's only showing the link.

Whoops
CMC FAB & DESIGN Pismo Whoops Mini Suspension Testing - YouTube

Testing
CMC FAB & DESIGN Pismo Mini Suspension Testing - YouTube

Jump testing
CMC FAB & DESIGN Mini Jump testing - YouTube

[Nubs]

Bigger carb, Yep

[Hollywoodc]

Bored the mikuni 40 round slide to 42mm.
Ran a 520 main.
Maybe I should have tried a run with the filter off to see if it's air restriction that's keeping it from going past 4500.
I'll have to do a leak down test also to see why my compression is only 90psi on both cylinders.
I'm gonna pick up some more Jets up too 660 for the next trip and see how it feels.

Only had a few times when I hit some hard landing whoops and jumps when the engine would bog down after the landing.
Felt like a carb issue where gas couldn't get to the carb. But would start up right away after.

[Nubs]

Not sure what to tell ya then, this is a new stock 35hp generac/Briggs that i just pulled from a golf cart build and it would roll up to 6K in a flash. are You sure You have the advanced key in the right way.

just takin' guesses, sounds like its just not gettin' air er'....

[hydromike]

I might be coming WAY out of left field on this one, but after listening to how it's performing during testing (sounds great, btw) it almost sounds like you should look a little bit into clutching. Coming from a similar experience with a six wheeler on a track, I have a machine (or two...) that are WAY overgeared, and although they run great and make decent power, they'll never reach their potential because they're just not able to make the power *where* they need it. Have you looked into tweaking that TEAM clutch a bit so you have a more progressive engagement? That is, make full engagement under load happen at a about 1,000 rpm more. From what I've read, the TEAM clutches are a fantastic unit and tunable to almost no-end. I don't know much about them at this point, but if it was a Comet or even a CVT-Tech I'd have a better idea where to go.

[Hollywoodc]

I would love to feel this thing get up to 6000!!!

This Briggs doesn't have a woodruff key but a standard key.
I spoke to Al Hodge and he said they didn't find any benefits in advancing the timing on the 35ers.
But I gave it a shot anyways.

Here is what I compiled with my timing key.

The key is 3/16 so if I cut off half, it would be an 8* advance.
If I cut off 1/3 of the key it would be a 5* advance.
I cut the yellow side of the key.

[Hollywoodc]

I advanced the timing by half of the key which is about 8 degrees.
I also did some mods to the Primary Clutch.

Car felt great on take off, It will pull all the way through until I ran out of room in the parking lot.
It felt like it took longer to get through 3500 RPM range.

I didnt like the timing advance at all. It does help with the Take off and it feels like it may be getting to max speed but it seems like it takes to long to get past 4000 RPM.
I put pulled it and put a stock key back in. But then I went and broke.

I then put the stock flywheel key back in to get another feel of the difference. By changing the keys I did notice a difference in Low end that I didn't notice previously.
Even with the stock key, the buggy will take off and jump up to around 3800 RPM pretty fast, It doesn't give the strong feeling of torque until right around 3800. Then it takes a bit to get through past 4000 RPM. By the time I can get it to pass 4000, Im already at the end of the Parking lot.

After measuring the cut key again, I calculated that its only about a 5 degree change, about 1/3 cut of the key.

So I put the cut key back in for the timing advance to record and make note of how it feels.

Sorry so shaky, no GoPro.
The squel is from the belt being a bit too tight, it's at 1.5 deflection but still tightens up and makes it tough to shift. It did that even before I did the Primary Clutch mod. I have to find the happy spot in the belt tension to where it doesn't squel or rotate.
As you can see, it moves and jumps up to 4g, but there isn't enough room for me to get past that point.
I'm pretty much close to WOT and you can hear the engine whining up as the buggy goes.


Vanguard RPM check - YouTube

[Hollywoodc]

Hydromike, in thread #61 it tells what clutch setup I have. A Salsbury 1190 primary and a Team secondary.
I made some mods to the primary to close the gap between the belt and the sheaves.
It engages pretty good and easy at take off. I felt that it was good to have it engage early for when the younger kids ride it. But after taking it out and running it hard, it feels like it needs a bit more top end instead.

I did a Black Marker test on the sheaves and both clutches are at about full engagement at 4000RPM.
So with that said, I'm thinking they shouldn't be at full engagement until they are in the upper Peak RPM range?

[Nubs]

Well if it can't reach 5 er' 6K on level blacktop or going' down hill all the clutching in the World won't get it there. that setup has far less drag than a chain driven 6X6 and should freewheel well when gettin' outta the throttle. it all sounds like a lack of air and er' fuel
the 1190 is way too heavy and clumsy for what Your using it for, they don't like to down shift well and the rotating weight makes the motor slower to ramp up and or recover. The 1-1/8 Team drive clutch is $400 bucks but a good used 1190 sells 4 250+ on the Ole interweb to help offset the cost. once You solve the rpm issue the new drive clutch will complete the deal.

1 1/8" Straight Shaft Roller Clutch

[Hollywoodc]

Thanks Nubs, Thats what I figured on the RPM issue.

Im gonna try a Rev up while at a Stand still and see the difference between with the Filter and without the filter. I'll shoot it with video and see if there is a difference.