18 hp Vanguard Idle Problems....any advice?

[Pinzmog]

Hello everyone,
I'd recently introduced myself on the forum and it's been a pleasure to talk with everyone and I look forward to meeting some of you in person soon. But meanwhile, i'm still trying to get this 2003 Argo Response 8x8 (Vanguard OHV twin 18hp)to run properly for me. I'm open to any advice someone may can offer.
I picked it up used from the previous owner who apparently didn't operate it very often and the gas had turned stale. The local Argo dealer had put on a new fuel pump, new lines (I think), fuel filter, and cleaned the tank for him just last week. The machine still smells of very old gas. When I tested the machine and for the 1st 30-45 minutes of running it at home, it ran fine. After this it started failing to idle and will cut off when ever you stop unless you keep it idled up. Of course, if you want to change gears it's kind of hard to keep it idled up or if you're crossing difficult terrain and need it to idle, so it's a real problem for me.
Here's what I've done so far.......2 new spark plugs (RC14YC .030 gap), New starter solenoid (still has starting issues too), ran some more carb cleaner through the filter and carb, Moved the filter further away from the side of the engine in case it was too hot causing vapor lock, and finally added a product called "SeaFoam" to the tank of fuel to dry up any moisture and help more with cleaning the tank. I should add that even now the first 10 minutes from a cold start it runs fine, especially if the choke is still being used, after that.......stall, stall, stall

I'll take any advice you guys can give! Thanks in advance!



Andy

[Bushman]

Idle hands

I have a few suggestions.

1.Go to Route 6X6 and check out the How to section and clean out your carburator as described.

2. Replace fuel filter

3.Disassemble the fuel pump and blow out the air exit on the pump body for the diaphram. You will know if it is dirty.

4.Make sure your air filter is clean.

These steps cured the same problem on a Vanguard for me and I had the same story on my rig.

Good luck, Bushman

[Pinzmog]

Thanks for the response Bushman, I'll sure look that up and try it.


One thing changed this afternoon and it makes me think maybe it's trash in the Carb. After about 20 minutes of running time, it started stalling while throttled up/travelling forward. I found if I ran the choke all the way out I could keep it running but it would still hesitate from time to time. The exhaust while not visable has a distinct metallic odor I didn't notice before....it smells pretty bad. The kind of thing that makes you need to shower as soon as you come in the house.

[eightwheeler]

Had the same problem with one of my Argo's, after trial and error i eventually took the feed line off the pump and blew into it, was very restrictive, removed tank, blew air into blocked line with an airline, flushed tank, reinstalled and all was well since. See if your feed line is restricted, do not just assume that it is fine cause the filter is full of fuel cause thats what i originally thought

[Mike]

I had the same problem. Mine would actually run fine for an hour or so and then start sputtering. I would have to have the choke out to keep it running. It ended up being sediment that had collected in the bottom of the carb. It was clogging one of the jets. Sometimes it would shake loose and other times it would clog up.

Before this I had taken the top of the carb off and cleaned every jet/port that I could but this one that was getting clogged is the one on the very bottom. The only one that you really can't get to unless you take the whole carb/intake assembly off. It was a bit of a pain on the trail but that's what I ended up having to do. Since then it has ran great.

I guess my advice is to clean every hole in your carb. I used plenty of carb cleaner to shoot through there along with one bristle of a wire brush. Between the two it worked great. Hope that helps.

[Bushman]

Pinz Mog

I take it you may have a interest in exotic 4X4s as well. I have an Ex-Raf Series IIa 109" Land Rover. I have always threatened to get a Pinzgauer but my wife would skin me. I do see a few Unimogs up here in the summertime around the Lake Michigan beaches. There a quite a few Land Rovers around Harbor Springs, Michigan and a friend of mine has a 101 Forward Control Land Rover that looks similiar to a Pinz or a Volvo 303-306.

Bushman

[Pinzmog]

I take it you may have a interest in exotic 4X4s as well. I have an Ex-Raf Series IIa 109" Land Rover. I have always threatened to get a Pinzgauer but my wife would skin me. I do see a few Unimogs up here in the summertime around the Lake Michigan beaches. There a quite a few Land Rovers around Harbor Springs, Michigan and a friend of mine has a 101 Forward Control Land Rover that looks similiar to a Pinz or a Volvo 303-306.

Bushman

Oh....don't get me started....I might cry! I've had so many over the years and wish I could have kept them all. Everything from a 1944 Dodge 4x4 Command Car up to a Swiss Unimog and Pinzgauer at the same time. I love Land Rovers too, especially the series IIA and III's. In fact that is the reason I sold my first ARGO back in the 90's was to purchase a 73 Series III I'd found and wanted really bad. I would love to have a LR Defender now, but needless to say I can't afford one at the price they are asking today. If you're ever interested in seeing any photos of some of the ones I've restored over the years send me an email and i'll share them with you.

But anyway......i'm getting too old now and can't restore and maintain the stuff like I used to. I'm hoping this ARGO will be a keeper and me and my daughter can enjoy it for a long time to come.....Just got to get it running smooth again. I appreciate all the ideas everyone has shared....I'll start working on it again tommorow and see what I can come up with and let you guys know.

Everybody Take care,
Andy

[Jeff t-boss]

Because the carb sits in the valley on the vanguards, they are VERY suseptable to moisture forming/collecting in the float bowl. The best thing to do is take the carb off and clean/rebuild it. I emphasize clean. You mentioned that the thing sat. Perfect scenario for "ICK" in the carb. Also; I don't know where you live, or where the argo came from, but if you have the reformulated gas by you, or it sat in the system, it may have deteriorated the insides of your fuel lines. The easiest way to tell is to disconnect a line and twist a screwdriver that fits snug in it. If you pull it out with light black/grey sediment on it, chances are the hose is breaking down and depositing in your carb. You'll have to replace them all. And last, the carb may just need the main jet adjusted. The jets have limiter caps, and sometimes they have to be removed to get the extra adjustment you need. (If you do a complete rebiuld and cleaning, the rebuild kit will have a replacement cap as you will have to break the old one to remove the needle screw for cleaning.) Hope this helps

[Country]

I have a 97 and it was having trouble idling. It also smelt like it was flooding so I talked to an Argo dealer and he told me to replace the air filter and precleaner. After I did that it ran fine and had no problems idling. Not much of an expert on these things I have only had mine about 8 months but it worked for me.

[Pinzmog]

update

Thank you for all the great responses. I decided to call Ken Bost at Bost Argo ATV in Rockwell, NC since he was the dealer that had worked on it last week for the previous owner. I wanted to make sure what all he had done before I repeated the same steps. I talked with him today and he suggested I try the pickup tube in the tank first. Well I did and there was a ball of gunk plugging about 2/3 of the end. He also suggested I cut the end of the pickup tube into a "V" rather than the single edge cut they come with so that it couldn't suck to the bottom of the tank if the tank should collaspe any.
Well I cleaned that all up and decided to check the brand new (napa gold - metal type) fuel filter. The gas coming out of it was rusty brown and I blew a few flakes of what looks and feels like metal out of it with the air compressor. Considering that the ARGO has a plastic tank, I think the previous owner must have been using a metal gas can that was rusty inside.
So it runs now without using the choke, but still stalls occasionally. I think I will replace the filter again and also the fuel lines, and take the tank out and clean it good. hopefully that will solve everything. I'll update again when it's done.

Thanks again for all the advice,

Andy

[twaynej]

Route6x6.com - 6 and 8 wheel ATV how to's - Vanguard Carburetor Cleaning

If you had all this trouble with trash in your gas tank I imagine sooner or later you will have to get into the carburetor itself. This How-To Guide Is from Richard Relics it's a well written and easy to follow instructional guide cleaning the carburetor on the engine. Although this guide is written for a max. We followed these instructions on my Max and solved a similar problem. These smaller gasoline engines take smaller Jets, air passageways so it doesn't take but just a tiny piece of grit in the wrong place to get lots of problems.

[Roger S]

Overlooked by that guide is the idle mixture screw, which needs to be removed and cleaner sprayed through. It's on the side of the carb facing the pull start. Compressed air along with a strong cleaner, like Berryman Chemtool works good. The plastic cap mentioned earlier is on this screw. Pull it off and toss it. It's an anti tamper device that limits your ability to adjust the idle mixture right. After cleaning, turn it in till it seats gently, then turn outward 1.25 or so turns. Adjust from there at idle.

[Pinzmog]

I left it out of my original post because I had to double check that I was right first, but Ken had already cleaned the Carb last week when he replaced the filter and pump. He told me today that he doubts anything has made it past the filter and I do too. So, hopefully if I just work from the filter to the tank I'll get it resolved. I'll defintely keep the link to that guide for future reference though!

Thanks again,
Andy