flooding when cold

[thebuggyman1]

I have a single cyl Jlo 2 cycle with tillotson HR carb. Lately when I try to start it cold, it floods. If I get it running it is fine and will restart fine when warm. Mixture screws are 1 turn out, but could be tweeked.
After flooding, it will start sometimes with either, sometimes not. I'm afraid to use very much. Sometimes it will "catch" a time or two, but not start, if I open the choke and throttle plate.
Plug(s) are gapped at .025, one is new, the other looked new, both were already at this gap.
Anybody have any ideas?

[thebuggyman1]

Just a second thought. The 2 plugs I have are a champion D6 and a NGK A-8 . Maybe a higher heat range would work better.
How do you get info on the plugs?

[LarryW]

When you pull the plug it is wet then?

Might be long shot but I had a coil go bad on one side of a 2 stroke and when it would warm up it would be fine. I think it expands when it gets warm and a bad spot in coil connects again? Only thing I could figure. But it would start and run off the one side for a while and be a big pooch. Then all of a sudden it would rip and be fine.

What Jlo is it?

[LarryW]

I bought a spark plug tester at B&G glove for like 5 bucks. You connect it to plug and put the plug wire on it. It has a window that shows the spark with a light. If you could find one of those it is real handy tool to have and it will run with it on too. That would eliminate the problem being plug or coil related.

[thebuggyman1]

The plug IS wet....When pulled and sitting on top of engine, the spark is faint, but quickly gets stronger as I crank. I assume I'm burning off the oil fouling. I mixed the gas/oil at @20:1 just like the sticker says, but, that seems like a LOT of oil to me.
I'm still thinking I need a hotter range plug or gap this one in farther. .025 also seems like a small gap to me.
Maybe a new coil in a higher voltage range= stronger spark=wider gap......but then again too much=burnt piston

[LarryW]

20:1 is pretty high for todays oils. I would consult Don! aka 2 stroke junky, lol. He could give you better advise on the plug and oil mixture. I run 32:1 on my stuff but that me.

[thebuggyman1]

Hopefully Don will jump in here soon. As far as the motor size....all it says is Jlo Rockwell. I also have no Idea as to the year.
And yes it is the one in the sportster. I wish I knew who made the sportster for sears, I might be able to get some history that way.

[racerone3]

looking at your pics, i can't tell which engine it is but someone will be able to. i run Spectro Oils of America - 2 Stroke Engine Oils in anything 2 stroke (same jug of fuel runs the attex, rokon, chainsaw, leaf blower.....) mixed at 40:1. i could probably take it out to 50:1 but it seems to work fine for me. do you have a fuel shut off valve in your machine? if you aren't shutting off the fuel when you shut off the engine it might be leaking past the float needle when the machine is sitting, and causing it to flood right off the bat... i'm not sure if that is possible in the sportster (if the tank is lower than the carb it shouldn't even be possible)

[thebuggyman1]

Yup, I'm guilty of being lazy. It has a shut off valve and I don't use it. The tank is level with the motor but the line runs up high before going back down to the carb. What little info I could find on the sportster says the motor is 20 h.p. St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search
Popular Science - Google Books
Maybe Mike or someone else who is computer literate could crop these and put them into the brochure catagory.

[Attexnoob]

I think the gap is too big. i gap all my plugs at .18 works great and thats what i have been told, also today my machine flooded bad when cold to get it started i would have to give it throttle and it was the fuel pump. Turns out the gas was being sucked into the crank case instead of the carb because of a riped diaphragm. after you crank it see if the gas is coming out of the hose from the case (leave the hose on and after take it off after you crank it to see if gas comes out)

[atvrider93]

try making the gap a little smaller. the gas wont atomize as well when its cold out so that could have a little to do with it. and also try a bit less oil.

[6X6]

BuggyMan. I never had luck with Champion plugs in the JLOs. I've been running the NGK, A-8, with much success. I don't know the gap of the top of my head but's its tight. .025 is too wide for sure. Don't forget, this isn't a high energy Electronic Ignition engine. Good'ol points and condenser! Don can give you the correct gap, I BELIEVE it's .018-.020 but even just going to .020 will get you close enough to start. A broken coil USUALLY breaks contact as it warms up, at least in my experience. But a Bad connection can put you in the loony bin. Since spark is faint, check all connections, and remember Di-Electric Grease is your FRIEND! I use this on EVERY connection on car/boat/any off-road toy. Get good BLUE spark, then see where you're at, and maybe also too liberal use of choke? Been there and done that, every engine has it's "Routine" it likes to start up, figuring it out is half the fun

[thebuggyman1]

I'm still having this problem, but I have a little better idea of what is really happening. When I try to start it cold, it will start and run for a few seconds before fouling the plug. I have learned to stop at this point or it fills the crankcase with fuel. If I pull the plug, lay it on top of the motor, the spark is faint, high up inside the plug for a few rev.s, works its way down and becomes strong and blue in a few seconds when it burns off the fouling. When the plug is reinstalled it happens all over again. Varying the choke plate and throttle doesn't change anything. I have rebuilt the carb and am sure it is not the problem. If I race the motor upon starting and warm it up it will run and restart fine. I have put in new fuel, mixed at approx 30:1 so I dont think it is the fuel. I am leaning towards spark/magneto. I don't understand how the magneto interacts with the points to trigger the coil. Does anyone have info on this? Or can I simply rewire to a more modern system of a car type round coil being fed ign 12v and gnd triggered by the points? Would low compression cause this, and when the rings heat/expand the compression raises?
I have tried plug gaps from .018 to .030, mfr spec is .025, all gaps have the same result. Also tried ngk a-8 plug. Should I try a hotter range plug?

[savage 40]

Seems like the same symptoms as me... mine had a pinhole in the Diaphram fuel pump... and it finally torn and the crankcase was full of fuel the next day..

[thebuggyman1]

Mine has the fuel pump in the carb. I tried a car type coil, high voltage, it would still foul the same. Lastly I tried draining all the fuel (FRESH WITH VALVOLINE 2CYCLE OIL @ 30:1), and replaced with synthetic oil @ 50:1. It has worked fine since. I still don't understand why, but it just doesn't like the heavy oil mix. It was designed for sae 30 mixed @ 20:1. I still think there is something wrong, but have no idea what. Any Ideas?