Chapparal G44b Wiring Help

[spookum]

The guy i bought it from said it "runs and drives" but when he showed up it had no spark It has the Chapparal "G44b" and it is the 434 cc engine. Looks like there are nearly 8 but connectors and 6 soldered wires. I would like to know that out of the engine there is a black/white wire, 2 yellow wires and (i think) a brown and another blue or black). Would someone know which wires to jump to get a spark? I just want to do this so i know the CDI box and Coil and magneto are good and the problem is some where in the wiring mess of doom. thanks guys! ill get pics up soon...

[wildbill335]

just by doing a quick search engine is from a snowmobile this site had some wiring diagrams may help http://www.r-techsite.com/Snowmobiles/FAQ/FAQ.html Im not one to mess with electrical untill I fine some sort of diagram to go by

[spookum]

Thanks wild bill! if you look on the diagram the black white is the "kill wire". The coil was shot, so low and behold i snagged one off of my 78 (or 79???) artic cat panther. The connectors were even the same! The coils look diffrent, but funcion exactly the same. Unless somone will contradict me. That is cool, i dont want to damage the engine.

Any way thanks again for the schematic, all the ones i could find didnt have high enough resolution to see what wire was labeled what!

Now it gets intersting. The engine will start, run and rev just fine if the black and white wire is disconnected. The wire changes color (somones home grown fix i guess) and runs into this little doohicky:013.jpg014.jpg It seems to be some kind of mechanism for killing the machine, i assume it goes to ground. The hint that i have that it is bad is that it is filled full of rust, you can actually see a water line, and it is controlled by a magnet that shifts a little rod between two poles. That and the fact it started "buzzing" for no apparent reason as the humidity changed today. Don't want that POS dieing back in the sticks.

Pics of the over all argo, the old coil (on the right side of the picture frame and the "new artic cat" coil installed. 011.jpg012.jpg010.jpg

later on tonight: battle chapparall pt. two! lol

[spookum]

thanks again guys

[1975 Argo 8x8 2-Stroker]

Hey Jadon

I have a 197(?) Argo 8x8, and it has a Chaparal G44B in it too, my wireing harness is stock, do you what a photo of it? When the old G44B does roar back to life, running mint, you'll be VERY pleased, but 1 thing, GET RID OF THAT TILLITSON, switch to a Mikuni Carb.

The Mikuni carb is a much better carb, and you will see how much better the engine will start and run.

Here's mine with the Tillotson: Argo Engine.jpg

And with the Mikuni: 001.jpg003.jpg012.jpg002.jpg

[spookum]

hello 2-Stroker! I would LOVE a few photos of your wiring! I was curious, that little rectangular box, i think i will call it a solenoid (see pics above), it has the black/white wire from the eingine, one power lead from the switch and a ground... does your machine have it too? If not, does the black/white wire go to the start switch like it shows in some diagrams?

I have been stalking some of your threads too, i think you recommended a 38 MM mikuni carb. What jets doses it have in it? round slide or flat slide? Where did you get the real nice looking rubber coupler from the carb to the engine? What fuel pump did you use, aka is it round, square or what machine did you pull it off of ??? did you ever put a air filter on it?

So long as i have that black/white wire diconnected, i can get it to run. Purrrrrs like a kitten. It is just diffacult to get it to shut off... not that im compalining.

Thanks again, and if you missed it, im runing a coil off of a 78 artic cat panther 440 fan cooled. Looks like the CDI box off of the same panther has the EXACT same connectors as the CDI box on the Chapparal but if it aint broke, dont fix it right but i still wonder....

[spookum]

normaly "open" circut for engine fix

ok this is my problem child: from the side 014.jpg

and from the front: 013.jpg

It has 3 wires, black white from the engine and by the diagram when it goes to the ground, the engine is "off" aka, no spark. It also has a ground and a power in (from the key). I could simply clip the black and white wire and put in a mono on switch that is water proof and run it to a ground. how ever, it would negate the key and make it super easy to steal the ago. All you would have to do is pull the start and leave! When im out hunting, i dont want to keep that close of an eye on the machine. So i beleive that i have an updated verson:

solenoid 001.jpg

If you go into NAPA and order the number off of the top, you should be golden. it is RC-400112-NN.

refer to picture often please, or the next wont make sense just so you can see it again:solenoid 001.jpg

Number 85 is power from the switch (and also the voltage regulator in case of bad battery it is yellow from the voltage regulator). 88 goes to ground. This circuit, when power is put to it, as in turning the switch to "on" or "start" or "on" and pull starting it will cause 87a to switch over to 87. Any hoo, hook the black white wire to post "30" and ground "87a". When you put power to the solenoid, it will break the ground, allowing the moter to start.

[1975 Argo 8x8 2-Stroker]

Hey Jadon,

I will get the photos for you today, My machine has a solenoid, it does not look like yours though, see the attched pic, I cicurled the solenoid.
(I am having trouble uploading pics, when the uploader decides to stop freezing, I will upload them.)

As for the black and white wires, I will have to check, I didn't really take a close look at the wires.

Thread stalker, huh? So, as for the Carb, what I found out was a Tillitson carb, what is on your engine now, actually (in some cases) delivers MORE fuel than an equivilant Mikuni, but as for the 40mm HR Tillitson that you have on the engine now, and the 40mm Mikuni that I put on, the fuel dilevery between the two of them will be virtually the same. Plus with a Mikuni, the engine will actually START and RUN way better! As for jets, NO CLUE I guess the stock jets in a 40mm carb (P.S. I have 2 40mm Mikunis, they were a package deal 1 of which is om my G44B, where are you located, I'd sell you one for cheap) Okay, so as for the Flange for the carb to the engine (coupler) just order a flange for a 1980s Yamhah Exciter 440, as they ran 40mm Mikunis, and being a 440, the stud spacing is identical. The fuel pump I used is a High flow square Mikuni fuel pump, it looks just like a normal square Mikuni fuel pump, but it is about 1/2 an inch thicker. As for an airfilter, all you have to do, is get a elbow that mesures the same outside diameter as the front of the 40mm Mikuni so as to fit over it, and the elbows end to narrow down to be the same size as the inside diameter as the 40mms front, I did this with a VM-34 Mikuni, it worked perfect, I will upload photos, but as I said, the uploader just freezes when I try, anyway, to find one of these, just go to any snowmobile dealer that sells used parts, and they will usually have something, the rubber elbow I got for the VM-34 Mikuni was off of an old ski-doo Alpine, sooo the elbow is needed so you can 1. mount an air filter vertically (to the arrowed end of the elbow) so it will draw air better, and 2. so the airfilter will clear the transmition shifter.

And Yeah, if the CDI is fine, leave it alone, playing with those things can just become a real pain, because if you drop one, (in most cases)it will develope a small hairline crack on the bottom piece, allowing moisture to get in it, THEN you want to see the problems you will have, one minute out in the bush, running great, the next, the machine just STOPS... Check no spark... better hope you have a spare CDI to get back... I know, it happened to me.

Anyhow, hope this helped, I'll get you the photos when the uploader decides to upload... and not freeze.

Royce

Okay, so here is my Solenoid (it finally uploaded after about 15 tries, I'll try the other pics too):00000000001.jpg

Here is my connections between the ignition and the engine: 000000001.jpg

*I will get the pics of the carb elbow up today... it quite uploading after the 2 above photos?

[spookum]

hello two stroker! That solenoid i beleive sends power to the starter, and i have one too, but it is mounted deeper in the tub. Please find the black/white wire, it is the "kill" for the engine. Im going to go and wire all this up and see what happens. Thanks for the pics, keep them coming if the uploader will play nice!

[spookum]

Thank you to all who have helped. It runs and drives with the newly modified wiring!

I left the wire loom off so you can see what goes where LOL. The above mentioned relay or solenoid is mounted on the side of the voltage regulator, on the fire wall.

003.jpg

a closer view:
004.jpg

now for a wire loom and nice water proof connectors where those pesky but connectors are on the side of the engine! Cheers.

also, as a side note, the coil used from the 78 artic cat panther uses "resistor" style plugs. I am going to try NGK BR8ES and BR7ES to see what it likes better. What does your G44B engine like? Talk to me 2 stoker

[1975 Argo 8x8 2-Stroker]

Sorry Jadon!

I was a little busy this week; didn't make it to back to the fourm until now, glad to hear it runs good, my G44b likes NGK BR9ES, those were the plugs in it when I got it, it's actually convenient because my 1994 780 Mach Z uses those EXACT same plugs, so I have tons of them!

Yeeeeah, no, it's still not playing nice.

[spookum]

your argo still has tude? what is it doing? My ago is also still cranky! I dont think that when running it is charging the battery!

It is going to tick me off and im going to stuff the 600 liquid cooled engine i just rebuilt for a yamaha sled. LOL.

If i was you i would try running NGK BR8ES plugs in your G44B. The only diffrence is that it throws a "cooler" spark. This will help your engine run cooler, and build more power. If it starts fouling out plugs bad, well, you will have to go back to the 9s

[spookum]

Rings and pistons for an old G44B (432cc) not 100% if it would work, but what the hell. still need case gaskets and head gasket.


I found a listing in an old catelog (Central Snomobile Salvage, in Green Bay,Wis.)
Chaparral 440 F/C Fuji G44B 432cc 2.677" (68mm) Weisco# 2232PS Their Ring Set# R09-218 Piston# 09-218

[George]

I have some used G44B pistons/rings and jugs. Not sure how good they are but the bottom end was used in a G50B rebuild and it was pretty good so I'd imagine the top end is decent.

I see gasket sets for the G44B on eBay all the time.

[spookum]

thanks george, ill keep it in mind. I just wanted to immortalize my research. I was wondering if anyone knew on the G44B engine there is an open ended hose on the crank on the mag side of the moter. To be specific, the hose that is used as the pulse line on the crank side is hooked up to the carb, for the fuel pump. on the other side there is an open ended hose that blows raw fuel out of it when the engine is flooded and im trying to start it. it there supposed to be a check valve some place or something? With that hose open ended, could it be possible that under load and at high RPM it is causing the engine to misfire? More importantly could the engine be sucking air and causing that cylinder to run really lean? thanks guys!