All-UHMW, All-Escargo Steel, and Escargo Steel/UHMW hybrid track test

[kcj512]

The metal crossers were not rubbing on my tub. On this set of tracks, the Plastic crossers are taller than the steel, so it's unlikely the steel crossers are hitting. Plus there is no damage on my tub. How exactly did you come to that conclusion?

KCJ the metal crossers were rubbing on the body of your argo better fix that or you'll be replacing the tub!!

Rock

[rockrewls]

At 3:51 of your video the crossers very much seem like they hit the underside of your tub, but hey you know what, do what you like I was just making an observation!! Good luck!

[kcj512]

Thanks Rock, I'll keep a close eye on them.

[rodp]

What puzzles me, having never seen these tracks (you never see AATV's in the Midlands let alone tracks) is why the grousers / crossers don't bend when hauling a heavy aatv over logs and such. They're just a piece of steel welded at right angles to another piece of steel so you would think, at the height they are, they would fold flat ??? Just how thick and heavy are these grousers?

[Buzz]

the vertical piece helps support the horizontal piece. Not to mention the horizontal piece has a "break" in it for additional strength in addition to the pressed radius shape. Vertical height and the fact that each piece is laser cut to fit precisely give it strength. Vertical on-edge height gives strength (much like tall longitudinal stringers on a tough-bottom jet boat), and in this case traction yet skid steers easily. Nothing is perfect, but they seem to be very effective. Making the track lighter makes it even nicer to drive.

[rodp]

Thanks for the reply Buzz. I can see how the two pieces give each other an added assembly strength due to the way they are constructed but it still puzzles me that the vertical which is just a piece of 1/8" (?) steel (effectively a piece of tin) doesn't just fold over when a load is applied at 90 deg to it. If you were to put a piece of metal of that gauge in a vice and apply a load the same weight as a fully kitted Argo to it at 90deg it would just fold over.
Just goes to show that theory and practice don't always work out the same.

[Buzz]

Yeah, I know what you mean. The crossers are just really strong, and the way the track "fits" over the tires when installed and tensioned properly really seems to prevent any significant "fold-over" of the crosser itself on the belting. All of the stress and load goes right to the cleat "under" the tire because of the crosser shape. The belting seems to take load at a more direct 90 degrees from the belt itself, not "closer" to 180 degrees or thereabouts that you might get with "foldover". Just doesn't seem to be an issue at all. The steel cleat "edge" is very well supported with welds too.
FYI, escargo has tried multiple "width" crossers over the years. I have some old photos around showing some crossers that were much "narrower" on the inner tire side to allow a narrower belt and no wheel spacers. This would also change the "shape" of the vertical steel cleat that is welded on for strength and traction. Still was a significant cleat but a noticeable "different" shape than today. Lots of testing went into this. Ultimately the track did not perform as well as the wider (current) design because of the lack of floatation. It also didn't skid turn as well because of the "abrupt" curve up that the cleat was forced to take, rather than the gradual more ideal radius to the current design. This holds true for both crosser sizes (10" and 12" tires). The increased paddle "width" and radius shape is very important, and it allows for more options to run wider belt sizes as well. Floatation is "hugely" important to go along with this paddle "body" that is really just one giant "cleat" when motoring through the nasty stuff. We'll have a video from the other day up soon. It shows that with just 4" belting on this cleat, we were able to run up and over all kinds of stuff in the deep snow. Swamp and mud performance kinda follows the same line. So, the track does very well without the addition of a winter kit, although that's always one way to gain more floatation. The track was another UHMW/Steel hybrid. Hope that helps.

[rodp]

Buzz, I'm not for one minute doubting the integrity of your tracks, you've been around too long to make a bad item. It just amazes me that what's effectively (not being derogatory here) a bit of tin can hold up to the abuse !! As a matter of interest what gauge do you use, and it is interest only, I don't need tracks as we have no swamps over here in the Midlands (UK). I tell a lie actually, we do but you can step over them
Wouldn't mind trying a set on slick clay and rocks though but the shipping would make them uneconomical for the amount of time they would be used.

I come from an engineering background, right in the heart of the Black Country (Check it out, it's where all the US original machinery and iron trade came from), and we left school trained up a factory fodder for the steel and fabrication trades so anything that really shouldn't work but does interests me.
Luckily I got out of those trades and now make hoods (tops ?), canvas and pvc covers for anything but really specialise in showmens covers (fairground).

[Buzz]

10 guage. I added a couple pics of an older/narrower prototype crosser with a more "abrupt" curve and body shape that could use a "narrower" belt. Whether it be for no wheel spacers or just a narrow track, performance was not good as good. Several different shapes have been tested. The design is best with a -wider- body and the options to run wider belts...the best skid-turning performance comes from a gradual curve up to a wider body too FYI.
Here is a pic of a new set (all-steel) 156 lbs ea. and super strong, emphasis on traction. In a hybrid combination it's even lighter with increased bouyancy. We have the videos from the other day...just trying to get them all together. Maybe kcj512 has one of them he could post!

[Buzz]

oops forgot the pics

[Buzz]

here it is
Argo Video 2 - YouTube

[rodp]

Hi Buzz, yeah I've seen the video, quite impressive. Almost makes me wish we had that amount of snow over here, but then again it's cold so I'll stick with what we get thank you.
I wasn't far out then with a guess at 1/8" gauge, 10g is just a little over that. It's amazing that what is effectively just a piece of sheet metal stands up to the abuse, you must have really done your homework on this one and I couldn't even take a guess at how many prototypes you made. You must be sick of the sight of a welder by now.

Quite surprised that a relatively small difference in the radius of the curve makes such a big difference to turning, you would think so long as there was some sort of rad they would just slide round. Like I said in an earlier post, theory doesn't always match practise does it, and sometimes it can turn and bite you in the butt.

Do you have your own laser for these now or do you have to wait for someone else to cut them, over here it seems everyone and his dog have either a laser or cnc plasma now but they still want to charge the earth for knocking stuff out.

Cheers Buzz, interesting stuff.

[guyfox]

Great vid...that setup and machine looks unstoppable.

[rockrewls]

Lets see these perform with 1000lbs in the machine through bog, water, over beaver damns, pudding peat holes, on hard pack, its fine they do well in an empty machine in the winter but the other situations need to be shown otherwise this is nothing more then a track that is ok in the winter.
Not only that with track tuners, and without and under this load!!
So what im saying is I want to see these tracks used under extreme conditions and abuse to see if there is a downside or weakness to them and performance in each venue!!
I have heard of a fellow who put these tracks on and destroyed all the sidewalls of his tires within 2 weeks of owning them, he has returned them and is currently fighting with escargo to get his money back!
As im in the market for a set of tracks and I need to know these are what the "sales people" say they are!! and not a hey this vid makes us look good so lets post this one, type of thing I wanna see the good and bad to these!!
I also put this challenge out to adair with there belted pro series with the double cleat kit as well as without the winter kit and only the 3" cleat on the 14.5" track!! as well I know adair had some issues early on with their tracks not holding together, I believe these issues are resolved though!
lets get some real head to head uncensored video of these, the good, the bad, and the ugly!!

rock

[Buzz]

Hi Buzz, yeah I've seen the video, quite impressive. Almost makes me wish we had that amount of snow over here, but then again it's cold so I'll stick with what we get thank you.
I wasn't far out then with a guess at 1/8" gauge, 10g is just a little over that. It's amazing that what is effectively just a piece of sheet metal stands up to the abuse, you must have really done your homework on this one and I couldn't even take a guess at how many prototypes you made. You must be sick of the sight of a welder by now.

Quite surprised that a relatively small difference in the radius of the curve makes such a big difference to turning, you would think so long as there was some sort of rad they would just slide round. Like I said in an earlier post, theory doesn't always match practise does it, and sometimes it can turn and bite you in the butt.

Do you have your own laser for these now or do you have to wait for someone else to cut them, over here it seems everyone and his dog have either a laser or cnc plasma now but they still want to charge the earth for knocking stuff out.

Cheers Buzz, interesting stuff.

crossers are actually made in Timmins, Ontario. Steel is laser cut, pressed, and welded. The escargo folks make the steel crossers. I am sharing helpful information for anyone interested