All-UHMW, All-Escargo Steel, and Escargo Steel/UHMW hybrid track test

[rodp]

See, shows what I know about tracks, don't even know who makes them I thought you were involved with them in some way?
Still amazing that a couple of bits of rubber and some sheet metal can take that sort of abuse though. If they had never been invented, and someone suggested doing them that way, you would say they wouldn't last 5 minutes. But here they are running for hours on end, mostly trouble free.

Rod

[mightymaxIV]

Wow that was an excellent video, I did miss the sound though, I think you are going to be in competition with Mud Bug and Roc Doc for the best videos. The ability of that Argo to climb and cross fallen trees in that deep snow absolutely stuns me. Even on mud trails a fallen tree is a very big obstacle to over come, but in that much snow? Stunning!!!!! Now all you have to do is learn to put some good music to your videos!

[Buzz]

Wow that was an excellent video, I did miss the sound though, I think you are going to be in competition with Mud Bug and Roc Doc for the best videos. The ability of that Argo to climb and cross fallen trees in that deep snow absolutely stuns me. Even on mud trails a fallen tree is a very big obstacle to over come, but in that much snow? Stunning!!!!! Now all you have to do is learn to put some good music to your videos!

thanks Dan. You're right about the music. #1 we had to get rid of the accidental "cuss" words when you're laughing and having a good time. #2 I heard something about "copyright" with music? I don't know.....seems like most people use it anyway. Music would make it much more fun to watch.

[Buzz]

We'll get some more video uploaded here before too long with some even better climbs. It's amazing how "long" the videos add up. It takes a while to dump the boring parts of the video so that it isn't horribly long.

FYI, this machine is a 700 non-hdi with standard gears. Top, brushguard, skid-plate. Two guys and a couple dogs. Certainly not the heaviest, but not the lightest either. This was "without" a winter kit and only 4" belts. But, the design acts like a paddle track and can really get the job done. I hope to get some more video up soon. I know there is never enough.

Rock....the inner belting should be beveled. It should never trash tire sidewalls. There must be more to that story. I'd be happy to offer insight if you have some more information. I have multiple sets of these and am testing various combinations of belt width, steel/UHMW, and crosser spacing/shape. I think a wider design with more floatation (this video is a mild example) would do absolutely great in the conditions you speak of. Cleat height "under" the belts really really helps, especially if it is an open track with adequate floatation too! I hope that helps. If you were near me, you could come out and drive a set. Where are you?

[Buzz]

thanks kcj512 for the afternoon of riding. We got some good footage. More to come!

[kcj512]

Lets see these perform with 1000lbs in the machine through bog, water, over beaver damns, pudding peat holes, on hard pack, its fine they do well in an empty machine in the winter but the other situations need to be shown otherwise this is nothing more then a track that is ok in the winter.
Not only that with track tuners, and without and under this load!!
So what im saying is I want to see these tracks used under extreme conditions and abuse to see if there is a downside or weakness to them and performance in each venue!!
I have heard of a fellow who put these tracks on and destroyed all the sidewalls of his tires within 2 weeks of owning them, he has returned them and is currently fighting with escargo to get his money back!
As im in the market for a set of tracks and I need to know these are what the "sales people" say they are!! and not a hey this vid makes us look good so lets post this one, type of thing I wanna see the good and bad to these!!
I also put this challenge out to adair with there belted pro series with the double cleat kit as well as without the winter kit and only the 3" cleat on the 14.5" track!! as well I know adair had some issues early on with their tracks not holding together, I believe these issues are resolved though!
lets get some real head to head uncensored video of these, the good, the bad, and the ugly!!

rock

Rock, where do I start...

First of all, your comment "these are what the "sales people" say they are!! and not a hey this vid makes us look good so lets post this one" sounds like a conspiracy theory buddy. These videos are exactly as they seem and the only editing was to get rid of the long boring parts. So you are clear, I have NO monetary gain from making cool videos about my new tracks - they are cool, and I should make videos; we all love this stuff.

I have 20 hours on my tracks, and not a scratch in the tub or a single scuff mark on the tire sidewalls. If you live close by, I'd gladly let you look the machine over.

Once the 4 feet of snow is gone, you will certainly see videos of "the machine through bog, water, over beaver damns, pudding peat holes, on hard pack" and anything else I can drive through or over!

I hate to ask, but every comment from you about these tracks and videos is derogatory, do you have an axe to grind?

I'm sure the Adair tracks are great also, I'd love to find someone up here with a set so we can "get some real head to head uncensored video of these, the good, the bad, and the ugly!!", do you know anyone in Alaska with a set?

As an aside, here is the video from our last run, hope you guys enjoy it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SRCKYPYDCAo&feature=plcp

KCJ

[akranger72]

Keep those videos coming Buzz and KCJ512. I will soon have a set of Adair classic tracks on my 750 HDi and will make a couple demo videos.

[mightymaxIV]

Another good video Buzz, forum members go to the 4:08 minute mark to see a Mudd Ox do something that I would have though impossible, then go to the 11:42 minute mark for another remarkable Mudd Ox show. Great performance in very deep snow by both machines. Anyone living in snow and ice conditions should have no doubts about what a tracked machine can do in winter conditions after watching these videos.

[rockrewls]

KCJ, lets just say I dont trust easily and leave it at that, people have a tendancy to post just the good things and not the bad, its simply human nature to convince yourself yours are the best, I am looking for a complete picture with all facets on the subject of tracks weather Adair or escargo or any other brand for that matter. I did have a bit of an axe to grind with escargo when I heard about the fellow who destroyed all of his tires running a set but buzz has graciously filled me in regaurding that story, there remains a mystery, but escargo made it right I understand so that is good.
I was also told about the early adair tracks falling apart and was informed by tim the reasoning behind that it was a very early design that needed to be reworked and was so that was fine especially since the fellow he GAVE them to wasnt out any money.
So as you can see Im not just sceptical of escargo but im just skeptical until I have enough data to be convinced, if that troubles you im sorry but thats is the way it is!!!
I look forward to more videos from all track owners and distributors and hope that I can actually get to try some of these for myself!!

Rock

[Buzz]

Well, I very seldom believe what I hear, so I can see your perspective I guess. No tracks will make your machine levitate like a helicopter. Any tracks are better than no tracks. The guys that have the tracks (all brands) seem to give valuable input if they have it. There's 1st hand experience, and then there's heresay, so I guess there you have it. Always more to the story. I've seen some really good (excellent actually) video from numerous folks (all brands). There are certain challenges when running tracks that have always bugged me. There's a reason I'm using and experimenting with what I have. I don't much care for heresay, and I'm happy to share what I find. Rock, I also hope you can get yourself a set of tracks sooner rather than later, you really don't know what you're missing. You too akranger72.....We'll definitely be able to a ride together....at least eventually.

[Buzz]

[QUOTE=rockrewls;143726]KCJ, ......I did have a bit of an axe to grind with escargo when I heard about the fellow who destroyed all of his tires running a set but buzz has graciously filled me in regaurding that story, there remains a mystery, but escargo made it right I understand so that is good.

FYI, no mystery regarding that story. Like I said, I'm here to give honest.....information and feedback. You're unclear in the open...so.....If you don't adjust your tire pressure and track tension correctly, your tires are a completely different shape, and the track belting acts differently than it "should" when installed properly. This is No different deciding to just go ahead and drive around on a set of tracks knowing that the (for example) "chipped/broken" plastic tire guides are going to be trashing your sidewalls especially with low tire pressure. Why would you do that? Sometimes people do not understand the damage they could be doing, I suppose. Proper intallation is key. Loose track tension and particularly low tire pressure plays havoc when running tracks. The tires are less protected, the sidewalls protrude more, and they allow themselves to compress so that they can more easily become compromised and take wear/tear. Deciding to run a track with that particular set up is not good, especially when going against the advice of the track maker. A centaur running a new/larger cleat that had never been used on a Centaur before was an experiment, but it was one that the owner adamantly wanted to do. I do know that Escargo sent this customer a hinge kit and longer wheel extensions for more flexibility in "clearance" and track tension. Then the proper advice was given regarding track tension. This advice was not followed. Ultimately Escargo not only refunded the customer's money and paid for shipping, they also paid for shipping and over $800 toward new tires for this customer because they really wanted to help him out. I've seen some very positive comments from this customer regarding the places he was able to go with these tracks, and track photos, not to mention an affirmative "thumbs-up" of this centaur on escargo tracks. The customer is always right......I hold escargo in high regard because of this. After all, I am a very satisfied customer and have lots of argo buddies who are in the same boat as me. 1st time in 11 yrs that a track was returned to them.


Rock Quote:
So as you can see Im not just sceptical of escargo but im just skeptical until I have enough data to be convinced, if that troubles you im sorry but thats is the way it is!!!

No problem, Rock. I won't fret about your skepticism...if what you say is true....and you're being honest. Please holler if there's any way I can help you though. I'll give you no B.S. information..it doesn't matter to me whose tracks you buy. Options are good, you got that!

[Rock Doctor]

Any tracks are better than no tracks.

I believe that no tracks are better than any tracks, most of the time (Not In Snow, of course). I find that a lot of guys don't spend the time to learn how to drive these machines on tires, and so they end up thinking they NEED tracks.
I think most of you guys know that I'm not against tracks, I have 6 sets of tracks, and up untill a couple yrs ago I NEVER used tracks in the summer. I could, and can, go most places without tracks. It might take a little creative driving, and it may take a few minutes longer. Tracks take the skill, and guesswork out of the trails, put 'em on and run down the middle of the trail, and that's fine ( I do it myself ), but at the end of the day, most riding conditions do not require tracks, they just make it easier to get through the holes. Any tracks are a pita on hard pack, rocks, tight trails, and when heavily loaded (especially if you have to make a corner, lol)
Disclaimer:
Yes, of course there are places where tires will not go, and tracks are the bomb, most guys don't have to deal with such places on a regular basis.

Anywhoo, I just thought it was a strange comment, and wanted to add my 2 bits. If you are one of the few that actually do NEED tracks to get through the terrain you ride, then obviously my comments are not directed at you. (Well, they are not directed at anyone in particular anyways, just my thoughts in general)

RD

[Buzz]

good point RD. Most people think they need tracks all the time. Not true, even for some pretty gnarly terrain and large obstacles.

[Obsessed]

Hey Buzz just got to watch your video...awesome job...loved seeing the all the snow and always enjoy watching your big red tank kickin' #€# ...great job editing and keeping it fun to watch, especially luv'd the beginning and ending with the truck and trailer...kinda gives it a little bit more of a fun story and makes it more interesting to watch...looks like it might be warming up a bit and the spring snow is starting to firm up a little, hope to see more winter footage before its all mud again :-)

Thanks for sharing the fun!

Tim

[rockrewls]

Yeah great vids gents, I cant wait for more summer bogs, water, bever crossings, hill climbs, deep off camber creek crosssings etc. vids like I mentioned throw 1000lbs in the machines and lets see how they go and turn because those can certainly be real world situations eg. a moose in the back plus gear.
I have even hauled a moose and a half with an 8 wheel argo before although this is certainly not something I prefer to do, the other half was in a 6 wheel argo...ha
I know rockdoctor has done some heavy loads in his vids with adair tracks 1000lbs or so that ive seen.

Rock