Escargo and Adair Tracks comparison

[jerseybigfoot]

If the tracks work in the conditions like what we see in your vid. Then why go to something else. The conditions Buzz and a lot of others on here play in are a little more extreme. Sorry but, just doing donuts in the front yard. does not empress me. I did that with my old plastic track.

But I must say, I sure do like the speed your little unit has It makes my conquest look like a turtle.

Ok so we took it from the front yard to the woods and attempted to knock the Adair Tracks off the springer.
Some woods testing of the tracks

[rockrewls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyKKiIjB9g

mudd-ox with a flat corner tire running escargo hybrid track. No problem. Track stays on and works normally.

Very impressive Buzz:
Now that's track performance at its finest at least in regards to the derailing and low pressure fears, that track was so loose after the air was out of the tire and in fact was fairly loose running before that the way it looked to me, and yet on a machine that weighs almost twice what an argo does.
And look no tire damage at all perfectly fine, look out you flat track lovers a few more performance video's on elevated tracks and everyone will want them, Adair, Chanel and Escargo, get ready looks like business is coming your way elevated track wise.
Im at least happy that video's showing reality are being shown for all to see stay tuned im sure there will be more.
2014SE your absolutely right in all aspects of what you said!!
Rock

[2014SE]

Yes all sorts of things happen to tires. Are you saying an Escargo track is unaffected by a flat or very low tire? How is the low tire affected by the steel grouser and rubber belting that may contact the flexing sidewall. I know my rawhide tires showed a fair amount of wear from the aluminum track guides on my factory track. Like I said, I like to test things. Here are some pictures of my Max IV that show some of the tires and tracks I have tried so far.


From what you have described I am confident that the Escargo track works very good for your application. I am also confident it is a far less versatile track than that offered by Adair. I know for my application I get more flotation for a given track width than is possible with an elevated design along with the fact that if you want an elevated track Adair offers that configuration also along with a wide selection of grouser accessories. I also think there may be some merit to a track that does not require track tuners for those who may regularly switch between tracks and tires like myself.

Having proof and testimonials I think is important. I take the time on purpose to show the conditions I am experiencing.

When this happened I never even got out of the machine. I would have been happy to play around to try and push the track back on myself. Within about 30 seconds a group of guys ran over rocked the Max up and the track walked back on. It all took about a minute and everybody in the group was back on there way. No video editing and lots of witnesses and help. That's what a trail ride is.

I think from my experience the flat track style may be very well suited for a majority of people. I also think it is nice that there is a configuration like the elevated belt design that may be less prone to derailment if that is your major concern. On a side note when I look around I do find it interesting that the tracks offered by Mudd-Ox, Max and Argo are all flat rubber belt flat style tracks and have been for years from what I can see. You would think if there was a distinct advantage in another track configuration it would be offered by a manufacturer. You would think it would drive sales. For example check out Argos track options:
Tracks | Argo ATV
It may be tough to claim a given track system, Adair or Escargo is better or superior when all the manufacturers do not offer either one.

Keith.

I'm interested in your conclusion adair tracks are superior to Escargo if you never ran Escargo tracks before?

Argo & Ox sell flat tracks because their not in the track business. To the machine builder tracks are a accessory. They do sell extras but their main concern is selling machines. The Argo distributed for western Canada told me if I'm going to run Flat tracks I need a high torque tranny. I had a high torque tranny and hated it with a passion, they swapped out my tranny to a high speed tranny and I love it now, with Escargo tracks I can go anywhere in high range and steer with ease. The curved grouser allows easy turning with no square edges to fight the machine turning.

Where myself and meany others ride their is no gang of guys to run over to help put a track back on in 30 seconds, 30 minutes or 30 hours. Not a atv park within 500 miles of where I live, Just lots of bush, snow, mountains, wild rabid chipmunks moose and swampy conditions.

If you like test things put your Money where your mouth is and buy a set of Escargo or Channel tracks and do a real comparison. Buzz has done this and more including making his own versions of different track designs and after testing then admits after doing all the work and putting the cash out comes back to conclusion Escargo is going to be tough to beat. Buzz started this thread "AFTER" buying and trying!!

If your happy with your Adair tracks and travel in a pack with lots of other guys to help get the track back on good for you but the rest of us need reliability, we're well off the beaten track and don't travel in a gang, elevated tracks are the way to go.

The picture of your machine "almost" throwing a track,,,,, what could cause a machine to throw a track there? The ground was almost flat, no side hill, rocks, mud or trees.

[Buzz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyKKiIjB9g

mudd-ox with a flat corner tire running escargo hybrid track. No problem. Track stays on and works normally.

[Buzz]

video uploading at the moment.

showing escargo hybrid track operating without difficulty with a flat tire. On a mudd-ox with hydrostatic steering. Stand by-

[Buzz]

In my opinion, if you're switching between tires and tracks very frequently, then you're just going to have to get used to working some lug nuts.
Again not a big deal. Set your machine up the right way, and you won't have any problems. Don't set your machine up so that you can throw your tracks on and off every other day. That's just silly. I guess you'd get some exercise. It's just lug nuts anyway. Wider wheelbase is more stability land and water. If you don't need this kind of reliability, then keep the track you have. But for backcountry conditions w/o a trail, the elevated-belt track is atop the podium. There is a reason I've tried to experiement with so many variations of the escargo crosser. This is after trying many other tracks on multiple machines. Even when I've gone back to test another flat-track expecting different results...I've always ended up cussing. I should have known better. For reliable utility use, go elevated-belt like the escargo.

The most versatile track is one that works everywhere, doesn't take additional power to to run, and actually makes turning in some conditions even easier than on tires. And I'm not talking about hardpack. Gliding along on pavement or hard dirt with a uhmw crosser is easier than on tires, and I would expect that from a UHMW crosser. But if your track sinks in -and- you need to turn in all situations a flat belt has tremendous resistance to lateral movment. Argo and mudd-ox tracks have to deal with this as well, but they don't sink in as far as a 14.5" flat track, and it is much harder to twist an argo 18" wide belt and harder yet to twist a 20" wide mudd-ox track with flat plate steel between the guides. Skinny individual ground-level flat belts just don't have much resistance to twisting. I know guys have still done it with the 18" rubber track. I have not heard about that problem with the 20" flat-plate steel guided mudd-ox track. Both of those tracks do take more power to operate and especially to turn in certain conditions. Luckily, the mudd-ox is built for it.

However, the fixed guide position of the elevated belt track shines here and rounded crosser profile helps to ramp the machine side to side in soft conditions. Turning is much much easier in soft conditions and the gear reduction helps as well. Fixed guides like escargo has are very important when sidehilling.

Keith, the escargo grouser guide does not cause undue damage to a tire sidewall even when lower pressures are used. If the belting hangs over too far, then it will rub. Simply cut the belting back, and it's a non-issue.

I'll try to pull my tire valve on an end-tire and then drive my heavy machine around to demonstrate loose track operation on an escargo track. I run mine loose anyway, but if a track is built to othe proper length to begin with, there is a lot of leeway in the event a corner tire looses pressure and all track tension is lost.

[Buzz]

guyfox-
escargo tracks on a 20 hp conquest work wonderfully. If you want use of your high range you'll need track tuners. They'll help fuel economy overall as well. Even in low range with the tuners, you'll use less throttle.

you've got maybe 18-20 crossers on top of the tires so your engine isn't going to have any problem turning the weight of the track. The "weight" is one of a few bullet points that other track makers try to slam. It's not that big of a deal, use your common sense.
You'll get the gear reduction along with excellent bite (1" tall steel on the 10" wide crosser) to put it to use along with the floatation of wide belts and a huge cleanout area between the tires.
Once your paddles engage, you've actually got more floatation than a flat track as well as deep paddles to side-load snow or mud.
I know I'm repeating myselft, but you asked, and I wanted to help.

Most of the conquests up here are MU geared. (just seems they were ordered that way over the years I guess). The escargo track works great on these machines.
You'll be a little heavier in the water, just keep the machine level (like any boat should) and it paddles better.

[rockrewls]

Yes all sorts of things happen to tires. Are you saying an Escargo track is unaffected by a flat or very low tire? How is the low tire affected by the steel grouser and rubber belting that may contact the flexing sidewall. I know my rawhide tires showed a fair amount of wear from the aluminum track guides on my factory track. Like I said, I like to test things. Here are some pictures of my Max IV that show some of the tires and tracks I have tried so far.


From what you have described I am confident that the Escargo track works very good for your application. I am also confident it is a far less versatile track than that offered by Adair. I know for my application I get more flotation for a given track width than is possible with an elevated design along with the fact that if you want an elevated track Adair offers that configuration also along with a wide selection of grouser accessories. I also think there may be some merit to a track that does not require track tuners for those who may regularly switch between tracks and tires like myself.

Having proof and testimonials I think is important. I take the time on purpose to show the conditions I am experiencing.

When this happened I never even got out of the machine. I would have been happy to play around to try and push the track back on myself. Within about 30 seconds a group of guys ran over rocked the Max up and the track walked back on. It all took about a minute and everybody in the group was back on there way. No video editing and lots of witnesses and help. That's what a trail ride is.

I think from my experience the flat track style may be very well suited for a majority of people. I also think it is nice that there is a configuration like the elevated belt design that may be less prone to derailment if that is your major concern. On a side note when I look around I do find it interesting that the tracks offered by Mudd-Ox, Max and Argo are all flat rubber belt flat style tracks and have been for years from what I can see. You would think if there was a distinct advantage in another track configuration it would be offered by a manufacturer. You would think it would drive sales. For example check out Argos track options:
Tracks | Argo ATV
It may be tough to claim a given track system, Adair or Escargo is better or superior when all the manufacturers do not offer either one.

Keith.

Keith, you may well be happy with your tracks causing problems, but I doubt other would be, and how can you say that an elevated belt design would'nt work very well in your situation you've never tried them!!, and when I say elevated belt im not only referring to escargo as you keep repeating im talking any of the elevated track manufacturers including Adair.
the fact that argo or muddox cant buy the rights to the elevated tracks available certainly doesn t mean that they are inferior to the flat track designs, only that they are unavailable to them, im sure they've tried very hard to acquire rights to those track systems!!

Rock

[rockrewls]

Ive seen video of Conquests with the kawi running the Escargo's since they give a 25% gear reduction by sheer design, I would think you'd be fine.
Anyone else care to chime in??

Rock

[kghills]

Yes all sorts of things happen to tires. Are you saying an Escargo track is unaffected by a flat or very low tire? How is the low tire affected by the steel grouser and rubber belting that may contact the flexing sidewall. I know my rawhide tires showed a fair amount of wear from the aluminum track guides on my factory track. Like I said, I like to test things. Here are some pictures of my Max IV that show some of the tires and tracks I have tried so far.


From what you have described I am confident that the Escargo track works very good for your application. I am also confident it is a far less versatile track than that offered by Adair. I know for my application I get more flotation for a given track width than is possible with an elevated design along with the fact that if you want an elevated track Adair offers that configuration also along with a wide selection of grouser accessories. I also think there may be some merit to a track that does not require track tuners for those who may regularly switch between tracks and tires like myself.

Having proof and testimonials I think is important. I take the time on purpose to show the conditions I am experiencing.

When this happened I never even got out of the machine. I would have been happy to play around to try and push the track back on myself. Within about 30 seconds a group of guys ran over rocked the Max up and the track walked back on. It all took about a minute and everybody in the group was back on there way. No video editing and lots of witnesses and help. That's what a trail ride is.

I think from my experience the flat track style may be very well suited for a majority of people. I also think it is nice that there is a configuration like the elevated belt design that may be less prone to derailment if that is your major concern. On a side note when I look around I do find it interesting that the tracks offered by Mudd-Ox, Max and Argo are all flat rubber belt flat style tracks and have been for years from what I can see. You would think if there was a distinct advantage in another track configuration it would be offered by a manufacturer. You would think it would drive sales. For example check out Argos track options:
Tracks | Argo ATV
It may be tough to claim a given track system, Adair or Escargo is better or superior when all the manufacturers do not offer either one.

Keith.

[guyfox]

Just wondering how much power/torque you need to run the Escargo tracks compared to the Adair tracks? I have an 02 conquest with the 20hp kawa with med gear tranny..... Would the 20hp be enough to run without taking away to much from the powerpack setup...

[rockrewls]

And this is why I will not own a adair pro series track for my needs, the guy isn't even in bad stuff or loaded and he's in a 6 wheel machine to boot which is even harder to throw a track on!!
Go to the 34:15 mark of the video
Haspin 2013 Full Ride - Max's, Mudd-Ox's, Argo's - Amphibious ATV's - YouTube

Rock

Keith, 34:42 track is off the front tire!!

[rockrewls]

So the fact there is video proof and testimony of people, for instance Keith stated in an earlier comment hes had his derail or "almost" derail at least 4 times in this forum as well others have either slipped tracks or "almost" slipped tracks specifically adair pro series or the chain sytle, under various ridding conditions its just all lies right???? someone must have spent a lot of time editing the video then it seems...lol
And yes your riding style is light compared to where I have to go and the loads I carry.
And having to make sure my tires have 6, 7 maybe more psi in them to function properly, I consider that an inferior track design not superior track design!!
lets face it argo tires can leak, get pin holes, bead leaks anytime during use and when your a long way out it a pain in the rump to have to mess around with tires and tracks that can and will fall off either due to inferior design or low tire pressure especially when your loaded.
I don't carry 4 or 5 guys around with me to lift and jocky my machine around to try to get a set of tracks back on my machine!!!
The elevated track design is superior IMO to all flat track designs, I don't care what brand you choose but the elevated track system is defiantly a better design!!
Oh and keith, at 34:42 of the video just before it cuts scenes, yes the track is off the front tire when they tried with out success to get it back on.
Rock

[foxvalley]

The sidewall wear would be no different then UMHW, don't get me wrong im not against adair, their elevated track system is probably just fine like I said, but the flat track systems are all the same and they come off under what I consider very light riding conditions, I guess that's fine if you don't mind the headache, but for me that's not acceptable and maybe for others too.
I mean really that vehicle in the vid was on hard pack no stumps or anything on a light 6 wheel machine when that happened that to me says volumes!!
I know one thing a properly setup elevated belt track design you can even get a flat or very low tire and still drive out and keep your track on, lets face it we don't always have air in our tires they can get punctured or leaks, I know from experience.

Rock

Horse Hockey!!!
It's funny that after spending days, and weeks, and months, and years, testing both the chain tracks, and the pro series, under extreme conditions in my swamp, that I have yet to slip a track. hmmmmmm, maybe 4psi isn't enough to keep a track on,go figure. Maybe you consider my swamp very light riding conditions,or maybe you haven't seen any of the videos of my swamp,but I'm guessing most people would.

[2014SE]

Pics of Escargo. I'm glad someone who has never run Escargo (or even looked at them up close) told me they are hard on my tires, I would have never known otherwise!

Sorry they loded upside down...