600 hours on HDI/ pro series tracks

[Fox Valley Argo Sales]

I just finished the maintenance on a 2014 HDI that I had sold new to a client that has a pond business,and is putting on about 300 hours on his unit yearly.
The HDI was set up new with 14.5 Adair pro series tracks,and 24" carliles tires,and they were never taken off.The HDI comes with 25" tires, or you can downgrade to 24" and save about 700.00,this is the route i took when ordering it.
Track tuners are not nessessary with this type of track, as the open grosser design helps eliminate chain wind up.
Not knowing how well this unit was maintaned,I did not know what to expect pulling the tracks and tires,but all the bearings were still good, along with the chain,which had stretched very little.....after 600 hours.
This is just another testimate of a newer unit with lots of hours,and how unit friendly the Adair pro series tracks are,and what you can expect from this track type.

[Buzz]

Grease is good. The customer deserves kudos for proper maintenance, nice job. It's nice to hear about someone with pride of ownership! Sounds like a lot of water use with a pond business?
No track really requires tuners. It would be counter-intuitive to use them on a track that doesn't utilize wheel spacers though. I do know of one person who is going to try cut some argo axles shorter and weld new flanges so he can test tuners with pro-series tracks and no wheel spacers.
What is your method of checking bearings? Thanks for the info.

[JohnF]

What kind of terrain? I guess I'm asking whether the owner does a lot of driving between ponds (on rocky/muddy/hardpack/sandy/dusty/concrete/...) or is mostly in the pond.

[Buzz]

driving in the water puts virtually no load on the drivetrain, but it requires diligent greasing.

[Fox Valley Argo Sales]

Grease is good. The customer deserves kudos for proper maintenance, nice job. It's nice to hear about someone with pride of ownership! Sounds like a lot of water use with a pond business?
No track really requires tuners. It would be counter-intuitive to use them on a track that doesn't utilize wheel spacers though. I do know of one person who is going to try cut some argo axles shorter and weld new flanges so he can test tuners with pro-series tracks and no wheel spacers.
What is your method of checking bearings? Thanks for the info.

Hey Buzz,
The owner initially bought this unit for a big job requiring knocking down cattails in a waterway,and simular jobs in marshy,boggy ereas.In this type of terrain,there is hardly any sand, grit,dirt, it's mostly dead and decaying vegetable matter,that has very little effect on the bearings, but does require more greasing.
Lots of track types benifit with tuners,especially with mismatched tires,and will cause damage without them.
Another issue that can put stress on bearings is the use of 2.5"wheel spacers that are used on most track types (over 14" wide) to pull the track away from the tub.The farther the wheel is from the bearing,in this case 2.5" the more torque can be put on the bearing/drivetrain.On the pro series track,instead of the 2.5" spacer,the use of a 5/16" spacer is used,more of an insurace policy than a requirement,and makes torque a mute point, keeping repair costs down.
The simplest way to check bearings is to take tracks off, elevate the unit, then grab a tire and wiggle up,down,or side to side,any play either direction and you have bearing issues.

[Fox Valley Argo Sales]

What kind of terrain? I guess I'm asking whether the owner does a lot of driving between ponds (on rocky/muddy/hardpack/sandy/dusty/concrete/...) or is mostly in the pond.

Hey John,
This unit,as mentioned above, is used in a cattail type enviroment,lots of water,little grit,which has a big impact on how well this unit faired,even after sucking 5 gal. of water out of it.
I have, however, seen extensive damage to newer units with less than 60 hours in the exact cattail type terrain with underpowered units propelling super heavy tracks.

[Buzz]

Just goes to show - it's all about maintenance and correct set-up, regardless of track type. I'll add a little..
I do agree that a wheel spacer adds some leverage, but it mostly causes hub flange issues if anything. Old style 2-piece stamped hub flanges were not the best, and nor were the welds. The new style axles are much better. Factory bearing extensions are also designed for use with tracks, to reposition the outer bearing so that there is less "cantilevered" axle length beyond the outer bearing. The added stress of a wheel spacer seems to mostly act upon the hub flange itself. That is why most of us are proponents (and argo is too) of the HD flange axles, even if replaced through attrition as old axles go bad. All new machines come this way and are just fine for 100% track use if set up and maintained properly. A argo factory width (2.5") wheel spacer is not a problem in the slightest, and the added wheelbase is beneficial in many circumstances. It also allows you to run a wider track which will improve performance in some conditions.
Other conditions don't require a wide track so go figure.
Appreciate your input FoxValley. I'll add one more thing when it comes to checking bearings. It is imperative that all chain tension is removed (tensioners released, but removing chains would be better) when checking for any play in the axle. You can have axles that feel tight with the chains on, only to discover that some bearings are bad....when the chains are no longer holding axles stable.
Oh yeah, and if you do replace bearings, grease them via the small ports before putting them in the bearing flange. At least then you know they got greased really well at least once Buzz

[Fox Valley Argo Sales]

The farther the wheel is from the bearing,the more chance there is for torque to be created,even if it's 2.5".You put a lot of faith in that spacer! Zero space between the wheel and the bearing trumps any kind of spacer,as no torque is created.
Sounds like you like to make a lot more work for yourself checking bearings.With the tires off,it is more difficult to feel play,but with the weight of the tire,you will feel any play, and it's a lot easier to rotate the tire forwards or backwards to move the chain tention around than it is to remove all the chains!!
I guess you are going to have to go into great detail and explain to me how the chain tentioners,with about 6oz.of tention on the chain are going to impact or negate any play whatsoever.The chains don't hold anything stable,chain drives the unit,it's the bearings that hold everthing stable.

[JohnF]

I was interested in how the tracks were holding up - 600hrs on concrete is different than 600hrs floating. Might be getting me some of them so I was curious.

The spacers don't stress the bearings. The bearings carry the weight of the machine and that hasn't changed.

The spacers do play heck with the axles (stiff brittle axles would just break) and the flanges. Especially the flanges. With the wheels on the flanges the loads are mostly straight into the end of the axle but with the spacers a huge bending moment has been added as the load it cantilevered off of the end of the axle. [That is just a rough estimate description. Probably the flanges support an off center load all the time but it is much greater with the spacers.]

Note that the manufacturer adds axle extensions (decreases the unsupported span of the axle) but doesn't change the bearings when modifying machines for tracks and it would be way cheaper to up the bearing size rather than create a whole new part.

[SHOTGUN]

I will add my thoughts. First and foremost the size of the outer bearing on the HD Axles are going to handle any load or leverage from the axle, the axle, bearing cast cage, axle flange, frame ect. will bend or break before a good bearing will fail. Argo uses the 2.5" spacers from factory and should be of no concern to use it. Two things will cause a good bearing to fail very quickly #1 contamination #2 lack of lubrication also including(wrong lube, too cold, too hot, ect.), there are others but do not apply here(over speed, vibration ect.). I find that under heavy load and if tire set up is correct all the slack in the chains is sent to the non drive side and the tensioner will take up the slack. The worst case in this scenario is right when the chain tensioner can click to the next cam, then the chain will stay very tight even after the load is removed, this is not from the 6oz of spring tension. The tight chain could hinder the quick check for a worn bearing. I check bearings with the tire on, it gives more leverage to feel play.

[Canadian_Zuk]

Wheel spacers absolutley do play a factor in brearing life. They do support the weight of the vehicle but adding spacers changes the way that load is applied to the bearings. The spacers leverage more load onto the bearings, effectively increasing the "weight" they see. It's the crowbar effect.

[SHOTGUN]

I agree that the spacers apply more leverage, I do not agree that the leverage is a "major" factor in contributing to the life of the bearing as compared to the other factors stated.

[JohnF]

Wheel spacers absolutley do play a factor in brearing life. They do support the weight of the vehicle but adding spacers changes the way that load is applied to the bearings. The spacers leverage more load onto the bearings, effectively increasing the "weight" they see. It's the crowbar effect.

The load the bearings carry is the machine. Imagine a tube 10 feet long. On it we hang 200 lbs (the load) from 2 bearings that are 4 ft apart. The bearings support 200 lbs. Now add 10 ft to each end of the tube (total 30 ft now). How did the load carried by the bearings change? [It didn't, right?] Leverage (or crowbar) doesn't matter because the load floats - that is - any force that exceeds the weight of the machine will act to lift the machine - the bearing seeing only the weight of the machine.

[Canadian_Zuk]

I agree that the spacers apply more leverage, I do not agree that the leverage is a "major" factor in contributing to the life of the bearing as compared to the other factors stated.

Perhaps not a major factor under ideal conditions, such as zero tollerances in the bearings. When the bearing begings to wear naturally, those wheel spacers will accelerate that wear exponentially. As soon as a little wiggle shows up, the machine bouncing down the trail with the added leverage from the spacers will destroy those bearings in short order. If you had a bearing in marginal conditon it may last the rest of a season on a stock machine, but I bet that same bearing would only last a few rides if wheel spacers were installed.

[Canadian_Zuk]

The load the bearings carry is the machine. Imagine a tube 10 feet long. On it we hang 200 lbs (the load) from 2 bearings that are 4 ft apart. The bearings support 200 lbs. Now add 10 ft to each end of the tube (total 30 ft now). How did the load carried by the bearings change? [It didn't, right?] Leverage (or crowbar) doesn't matter because the load floats - that is - any force that exceeds the weight of the machine will act to lift the machine - the bearing seeing only the weight of the machine.

The bearings installed in these vehicles are not designed to take side loading like a tappered bearing, the added leverage from spacers pushes in as well as up on the bearing. It's this twisting load that affects their service life.


Try to pick up the corner of your deep freezer with your right hand only, bet you can't. Now try to lift it using a crowbar and your right hand. You can now lift that same freezer with a crowbar that you could not lift with your hand alone. Did the weight of the deep freezer change? (it didn't right?) or did you somehow manage to apply much more force to the bearing surface with the crowbar than you could without it?