A new twist on Tires, Ideas and questions.

[soutthpaw]

I read .through a lot of the threads on tires and have some questions and ideas that i did not see addressed as well as my own experience with a few ATV tires. I am hoping to get an AATV in the next week or two so hopefully I will get to test these ideas out...

Questions:
1. I did not see any threads of folks using more than one tire model at the same time such as mudders on 4 rims and swimmers on 2 for example. anyone using a setup like this? what are you experiences?
2. I am wondering how they perform with different ply and sidewall strengths. for example on my ATV I removed the Mud Lites and installed these Sedona Mud Rebels . The latter tires has a much more rigid sidewall and even runs flat with compressing on my ATV.... Is a stiffer sidewall better or worse for AATV use
3. Anyone tried a sand (paddle) tire for swimming?
4. I am also wondering how much space needs to be between each row of treads to swim well? from what I have read it seems that tread that is too close to the one in front does not swim well regardless of the style of tread.
5. Several folks said the Mud Bug and Vampires swim well. however they do not have a "V" that is joined to make a scoop so what about how vertical the side of the tread is as opposed to some that dont swim well seem to be more sloped on the leading edge of each tread lug...
Ideas:
1. I don't see anyone actually modding a tire for better swimming traction. If my thinking is correct, the reason the tires swim in the reverse setup is that they act as a scoop to create a "paddle" boat effect. Thus the center of the V is closed so water cannot slip through the scoop.
My thoughts here would be to use a tire regroover to modify a mud tire so it swims better in the action direction and less resistance in the reaction direction... I would do this by finding a tire where the tread can be made to create multiple mini paddles and then put like a 45 degree bevel on the trailing side of the tread to cut down the "re"action force. (though I think it depends on how deep your tires sit when swimming. if fully submerged it should be a benefit) Also notch tires to get tread that is parallel to the width of the tire creating a better "paddle". I am browsing though various tire pics now but the Mud Rebels I referenced above have a tread design that seems to lend itself to this mod...

[soutthpaw]

Pictures added to Tire Gallery

I added a couple dozen pics to the tire gallery of tires that I thought might work as good mudders and swimmers either installed standard or reverse direction... I put the name of the tire as the title and would love to get comments on anyone who has used that specific tire and/or your opinions of any of them for swimming...

I have a used set of ITP mudlites from my ATV which I looked at it sure seems like they would swim well as they have 2 nice cups to catch the water on each tread as well as sidewall tread that seems it would help paddle mounted in the forward direction
the Mud Rebels I currently have on my ATV seem like they would work really well mounted in reverse direction as there is the V plus some nice flat bars to paddle

Of the other pics that I posted the Duro Excavators look interesting mounted reverse probably, esp if the protusions on the lugs were removed to create a better Zig-Zag pattern and allow more room for water to get in between the lugs to paddle

[Noel Woods]

Its strange how different tires perform. The Terra tires I had on my Max2 swam poorly. The Wranglers swam some. The Mudbugs swim fairly well, but it took experimentation with tire placement to optimize swim capability. All those tires swam quickly on my Swamp Fox though. Vehicle design makes a big difference. The Swamp Fox sits high in the water & is very buoyant, the tread is maybe 3" below the surface. The Max sits lower in the water & my theory is that its less buoyant than the bigger machine, and has more drag in the water, hence slower speed. I've observed that Max4's & hustlers sit higher than the Max2 in water, and are slightly faster than most Max2's. Tread sculpting might work as you theorize. The Vampire tires (both regular vampires & ASX's) both swim well, and mud even better.

[LarryW]

There are many factors involved with the swimming and one tire will work great on one style machine but not on another. How close the body comes to the tires seem to be a factor. I believe(never tested or really know) The close the tub is the better being that is helps shed water from rotating back across top of tire. I remember a discussion about someone saying adding flaps on top of the tire helps. I run goodyear terra tires/attexes and they work well enough for me I dont have to tinker with getting more speed.

Your sidewall question is stiffer make the ride really rough. So if ride quality is a factor, stiffer is worsel

[Mike]

Let me throw some links out from using the search. I know a few of the topics you mentioned have been discussed before:

Sand Paddle tires have been discussed a good bit in the past: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/tire-...d-paddles.html

As far as modifying the tread, birddog1148 has experimented with a tire groover here: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/tire-...egrooving.html

For mixing tires and directions try reading this thread: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/tire-...-combo-13.html

[soutthpaw]

Thanks Ill take a read of them. has anyone gone from say like a 24 or 25" tire on 8" rim to a using a 10 or 12 inch rim with a similar diameter tire and noticed if they sit lower in the water with the larger rim? just thinking more air in a tire on smaller rims may float more.... or maybe it doesn't matter. Good point about the tire to body distance I had not thought about that..... Mike do you agree with my hypothesis about making good swimmers in the first post?

[soutthpaw]

I have been reading the various threads on tires and doing more thinking and come up with the following...
really tall tread is not good for swimming as it produces too much turblance on the trailing edge like the downstream side of a boulder or bridge support in a river. Also the other key factor seems to be tread spacing. close tread that does not have a large gap between each row does not let enough water in or out to swim. the Higher out of the water the tires sit the better and thus the largest diameter tire on the smallest possible diameter rim will give the most flotation. because it is harder to push beach ball under water than a tennis ball... The closed "V" or scoop helps with overall speed but don't seem like they would do diddly if the previous factors are not met. Large wide spaced sidewall tread seems to also be very helpful from comments I have seen in various threads... I think there is a "magic" angle to the "V" also that makes a good swimmer. it seems like a shallower (wide) angle is better than a sharper angle