UHMW tracks with covers.

[mudbug3]

stonewall

What I am saying is that you don't have sufficent lower tub clearance to be able to run even a 1" inch grouser over a 25 inch tire. You would probably have to go down to a 20 inch tire with a 1 "inch grouser. The shorter side walls of a smaller tire don,t give you the boyancy that you have with a 25 inch tire. When you have a smaller less boyant tire, plus the additonal weight of each UHMW track section, thats on either side of the tub, the whole tub sits lower in the water. This then makes the tracks and the smaller tire also sit lower in the water. If a track section is more than half way under the water, then your water speed drops off -----> BIG TIME ! You now have a great mud machine with hardly any water speed.

[Stonewall]

Mudbug,

I don't really use my machine in the water very much anyways, so these tracks paired up with...say 18" tires, would be pretty awesome? As long as it moves foreward in the water I'd be happy. If I needed more water speed I could probably rig up some fold up pontoons.(I have an idea for that already in my head...)

Mitey,

I like your revised track section, especially the bolt on retainers. Your definatly on the right track...(Lame I know...)

[MIteyMT]

Mudbug,

I don't really use my machine in the water very much anyways, so these tracks paired up with...say 18" tires, would be pretty awesome? As long as it moves foreward in the water I'd be happy. If I needed more water speed I could probably rig up some fold up pontoons.(I have an idea for that already in my head...)

Mitey,

I like your revised track section, especially the bolt on retainers. Your definatly on the right track...(Lame I know...)

These are both just steps towards less expensive materials for the track guide, consodating the need for hardware, etc. Big difference here is the use of a single bolt, could go through and through for a bit of ice traction, the top here maybe LDPE or HDPE.

[mudbug3]

Stonewall

My friend has a Max II , 18 hp on loan that has 18" inch tires on it ( outstanding gear reduction ) and 1 3/4 " inch track grousers that pull you through the mud like crazy. It floats really low in the water with the small side wall tires, but its an awesome mud machine!

[MIteyMT]

Forget about the Track guides ( Escargo did), screw axle extensions (assymetric piece gives room by the tub, utilizes a 4 inch conveyor belt outboard, and a 3 inch one inboard). How about these guys, spaced about 4 inches apart? Mosdal Tracks ( or are they "escardairs"?

[Stonewall]

I think your grousers are getting too short...

I still like your design from post #15. It would be easy to assemble with minimum hardware, and easy to replace a broken grouser.

[MIteyMT]

I think your grousers are getting too short...

I still like your design from post #15. It would be easy to assemble with minimum hardware, and easy to replace a broken grouser.

Easier than this?

[MIteyMT]

Most inexpensive to manufacture.



I slightly concerned about the lateral stability of this design, but it allows for many sections of UHMW to be cut from a single sheet. Of course I am not there yet. I have been getting some really good input via email and PM, and I am trying to work these ideas into my head.

[MIteyMT]

Track guide:Orange, made from HDPE
Track guide has 3"x4"x1/8" and sits on a stiffener, black, made from UHMW to improve lateral stability
Conveyor belt:Gray, has lines in it that should not be there, so imagine it is continuous

The track guide on this one is generic, but I am leaning towards a simpler design like this. The generic track guide will sandwich (using 2 bolts all the way through) the stiffener, the belt, and the bottom track section, which is nothing more than a 1"x2" piece of UHMW.

are we going the right way now, T.? I like the wear resistance of UHMW, but I dont think it is necesarry for the track guide, am I wrong?

This is all 1" material shown at a 5" spacing

[Obsessed]

Again, great job Aaron...you do nice work and you did a great job of following my suggestion...(although I still think that a simple version with wood components would work and be less expensive and an easier do it yourself project).

As for your question about material selection, the track guides should stay UHMW to save on sidewall wear...other companies have used other forms of plastic and we have seen guides breaking, and rapid tire sidewall wear.. You are now getting very close to an earlier design of ours, but if you really wanted it similiar and efficient, you would make the wheel guide out of flat 1/2" sheet material, and mill fold lines into it so that the parts could be shipped flat, be built 2" wider, be reversable for wide or narrow tires, and eliminate the need for the seperate backer plates you've drawn.

This is an economical design, but lack the performance value of your earlier copy of adair tracks....on the other hand the belting is a simple and proven concept and there is somthing to be said for simply duplicating a prove design and not trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak

Keep up the good work and let me know if you need more help.

Tim

[MIteyMT]

I was drawing that track guide, and had to quit, wanted to see what this chain sandwich would look like. It's recessed with a full length channel, not individual chain link recesses. I assume that chain stretch would turn this into a mess. What I do like, though, is the notion of an orgami style track guide strip, instead of individual track guides.

Is the main problem with conveyor belt (which I know works fine) that it stretches, or wears, or that it has too much weight or friction? What if it was backed with a thin layer of plastic on the ground side, for abrasion resistance and slickeriness. Would the two materials wear differently, and stretch differently, and not remain tight together?

[MIteyMT]

Box of tracks in the mail

What about no chain, no channel for a chain, Orgami style strip for track guides (recessed differently for fat or skinny tires)?

the only hardware is the two bolts per grouser that hold the grouser, a 3"x1/4" strip of continuous UHMW, and another 3"x1/2" strip of UHMW (the orgami style track guide strip) in a sandwich (from bottom to top the way it is listed). The whole thing is mailed out in 48" strips, most of the machine work is on the track guide strip, and a box of 1"x2"x16" track sections and a bag of hardware. When it loosens up, you take out a couple of shoulder hardened bolts that holds the whole affair on like a belt, and move them to their next respective hole on a lap joint.

I truly believe people are laughing their butts off with all the inherent problems in that last idea that I cannot even conceive right now.

[MIteyMT]

I think I figured out a way to make these with no chains and no hardware (excepting the closure). I need some help understanding the nature of the track stretch. Is the nature of the UHMW such that it will continue to stretch over time without the inclusion of a chaiin within the track?

I am also doing a call out for conveyor belt. I am trying to get enough conveyor belt to do two test sets of tracks, a 6x6 and an 8x8, and I could use some help determining the best product for rubber conveyor trials. I may need to just contact escargo. Your thoughts, world?

[Obsessed]

I was drawing that track guide, and had to quit, wanted to see what this chain sandwich would look like. It's recessed with a full length channel, not individual chain link recesses. I assume that chain stretch would turn this into a mess. What I do like, though, is the notion of an orgami style track guide strip, instead of individual track guides.

Is the main problem with conveyor belt (which I know works fine) that it stretches, or wears, or that it has too much weight or friction? What if it was backed with a thin layer of plastic on the ground side, for abrasion resistance and slickeriness. Would the two materials wear differently, and stretch differently, and not remain tight together?

Sorry Aaron,

i should have been more clear on how to do it...you need to rotate the track guide 90 degrees and then make it an uneven triangle with one side a straight 90 degree and the other about a 55 degree (or whatever works out right as you will learn during prototyping) and then the end flaps fold under and each has a mounting hole machined in it. You then have the ability to use the same two mounting holes and mount the guide either leaning in or leaning out for different tire applications. As you have it drawn, your tire sidewalls would take a beating....you want the sidewall running on a smooth flat 2" surface and will need to router the sharp edges with at least a 1/4 radius so they are as easy on tires as an adair track.... remember its just grouser-belting-wheel guide, get rid of the extra stuff thats not necessary....thing i like about this is that they are very strong, but a little flexible... also the top of the triangle needs to be round enough so that it wont spear a sidewall or unseat a tire bead. you will need to do this with about 3 fold groves on the inside of the fold so that the finish result is smooth, strong, and functional...which if you are starting to figure it out, means that you will have to machine two sides of the part and one of the operations will be done by hand...we have to do 4 seperate hand operations on an adair grouser after the CNC is finished with what it can process....

by the way...lay the grouser pads flat for fender clearance issues ....our grouser is 1 3/16" tall over the center of the tire and increases as it flows down the profile of the tire...you do not want to make it much taller than that.....

again, great job and hope this helps

Tim

[Obsessed]

we prototyped an all UHMW track, that had no metal parts and was very clever.... the cool thing about UHMW is that it weighs about 92 percent the weight of water so it floats...the problem with most plastics including UHMW is that it expands and contracts a lot based on temp....for instance an 8x8 track that measures 19'2" may grow 6" in length on a hot day... you also have a continual stretching of the plastic material itself as it bends, its best if you can use it in a static application where it does not bend...either way you need to give it tensile strength and stability with something like our new style through hardened chain
tim