Diesel Magnum Clutch

[Rudy_Magnum]

After riding the diesel magnum around a bit, it has become apparent that it is in need of some clutch adjustments.

The background info:
The TEAM rapid response primary I bought off eBay was designed for a Club Car Carryall 1500 4x4 Diesel running a 20hp, 3600rpm Kubota diesel. I thought this was pretty close to my Thermoking (Yanmar) ~24hp at 3600rpm diesel. The original Magnum 18hp would have spun at 3600rpm as well. Should be good to go, on paper.

The secondary is just the original one that came on the machine (1988 8x8 I/C Magnum). Salsbury?? It is in decent shape, so I figured I'd just leave it, and if it became a problem I could deal with that later.

What's happening:
The primary is not engaging at a decent rpm. It engages near top rpm. My "seat of the pants" tach measures around 1800-2000rpm or higher. This is great for having decent power and torque to tour around in high gear and have enough nuts to rip right around, but it makes it hard to drive nicely. You can't just feather the throttle a little and have it engage. When it engages, it ENGAGES!!! Which is all fine if you just wanna grip it and rip it. The plan with this machine is to run it on our yearly camping trip. The hellish portage on the way in is not really a grip it and rip it kind of situation. Slow and easy is more the name of the game, as there's lots of rocks and trees. Watching this years rental rig (2018 Avenger 8x8) run over that path told me a lot about what I need to make my machine run like, and it's nothing like what it runs like now.

So, besides the engagement rpm, I also don't get full shift.....ever. Not even anywhere near. The belt goes maybe 3/4-1" into the secondary. This isn't as big of an issue for my situation, but it means that on a long flat straight, you're screaming along in high gear at a brisk walking speed.

My conclusions:
From my limited knowledge/experience with CVT's, I assume that I will need some heavier flyweights for the primary, and maybe see if I can lessen the spring tension on the secondary. The secondary may be a bit of a problem, as I am having difficulty getting it off the transmission input shaft. Can't imagine it's all that fun to adjust while it's mounted.

I'm also having difficulty finding any info on flyweights for the TEAM clutch. I can find stuff for Arctic Cat and Polaris sleds, but they run higher rpm and more power. Dunno how this will translate over to a diesel running lower rpm. Any help would be wonderful!

Thanks,
Rudy

[dirtdobber]

Hi Rudy, to help us understand more technically what is happening, I want you to answer a couple of questions about your primary not engaging at a decent rpm.

First, have you actually observed the motion of the primary, or are you just judging by when the machine starts to move? If you are judging based only on the movement of the machine you may have a belt tension problem. If your belt is too loose, much of the travel in the primary could be "used up" taking the slack out of the belt, thus when the machine finally moves you are at high RPM and large diameter ratio on the primary, which keeps you away from a creeping speed but not able to reach much more than walking speed as you note.

Next, if you have observed the motion of the primary, once it begins to open is it opening smoothly? In other words, does it look like there may be some resistance that is keeping it from acting like it should? Maybe the primary needs to be disassembled and cleaned?

Finally, as far as your ground speed, make sure the secondary is capable of cycling through its travel. It may need some cleaning too.

Good luck!

[Rudy_Magnum]

The belt is slightly big, but not too much. Still takes some prying to get it off the secondary. Where it engages on the primary isn't too far up, the top of the belt is maybe 1 1/2"-1 3/4" up from the center shaft.

The primary is new. While it's sat in the garage on the shelf for a few years, it only had dust on it. I did take it apart and clean it and make sure everything was moving freely before I installed it.

If I go downhill in low gear, I can get it to shift a little further. Maybe halfway in. The belt certainly is still not near the top of the primary.

I have no doubts that if I can find a smaller belt, it will make things slightly better, but it was hard enough to find the belt that I have and it was $200. It's a bit longer than the regular belts that are available. The original belt is a 52", which I think is a pretty standard Argo belt. This one is a 55". Something like a 54"-54.5" might be a bit better. The 52" will NOT go on without a lot of prying and opening up the secondary.

[dirtdobber]

It may be too little too late, but adjustable engine mounts come in very handy when fine tuning belt tension. I think you will be surprised how much difference proper belt tension will make. It also may be worth the effort to clean the driven clutch to make sure it's working freely. These words are boring....post some pics or video and let's see what you've got.

[Rudy_Magnum]

I can take and post pictures tomorrow morning from my computer. Too much of a pain from my phone. If you want to see some pictures and video, check out the build thread in the engines area.

[ARGOJIM]

Can you collapse the belt and touch belt to belt?
Is the team clutch the same diameter?
Is the belt width the same?
Are the clutches designed to run the same width belt?
With belt widths averaging from 1-3\16 to many of todays 1-7\16 it could be the team is acting as if it had a wore out belt, along with adjustment.

[Rudy_Magnum]

I can just touch belt to belt. The team clutch is slightly bigger diameter than the old Powerbloc that was originally on there. The belt width is the same, the Club Car specified the same width belt. Belt thickness however is a bit different. This is a 2322V541 industrial belt meant for a milling machine. It took forever to find one in the length I wanted, and also in the right width and angle. Because the new belt is a bit thinner, the top of the belt sits down in the clutch a bit more. Because of this, it drags a bit. So, it's not because the belt isn't wide enough.

When I moved it back into the shop last night I watched what was happening. It backshifts instantly when you hit any kind of incline. The engine isn't loaded much at all, other than when you turn.

Anyway, some pictures.


Picture of overview


Belt touching


Shows how far out the belt comes. Not too horrible, but last night I rammed it down a hill to try to get it to shift further. This moved the line out a bit.


Shows how far in the belt goes. Compared to the line from original setup, it's not too far.

Now, one may look at the primary and secondary and belt touching and say I need a shorter belt. Yes, I agree. I'm not so sure that will solve all my problems though. It may be a good place to start though.

[Rudy_Magnum]

So it would appear that the next size down of belt in 2322V Series is 52.8". I highly doubt I would be able to shoehorn that on there. It's only a bit bigger than the original Argo belt.

I did find that an Ultimax 138-5232U4 belt is 53 5/16 long. Might be another option.

[Rudy_Magnum]

I rammed the original belt (52") on there. Took two guys, but we got it on eventually without breaking anything. No slack, and sits down in the secondary about 1/8". It's a bit easier to shift because the belt is thicker, so it stands out a bit better out of the primary and doesn't rub on the sheaves.

Took it for a rip, definitely nicer for engaging, as it doesn't have to move far to pinch the belt. Back shift is a bit slower, which I didn't mind. It will make the engine snort a bit more than it used to with the bigger belt when turning. Top end speed may be a bit better, but this could be because it's sitting down in the secondary further to start with. It still does not reach full shift. One thing I could check yet is to see if I am getting 3600rpm. It sounds pretty close to the Yanmar in my John Deere 332, which is set to 3600rpm from the factory.

So, at this point I'm thinking I should try a different belt. The 53 5/16" looks promising. While prying the 52" belt on there, another 1 1/4" would have made it a lot easier. Maybe after that I should start looking at springs. I contacted Venom Products (took over from TEAM Aftermarket) and they said the 153g weights are what they would recommend for my engine. The primary spring in there is a black/silver one, which is 70-190lbs. Maybe a 55-155 or 65-170 would make a bit of a difference. I am assuming this will lower engage rpm, and allow it to go closer to full shift. I can lower idle a bit more still if I find the engage rpm is too close.

[dirtdobber]

Question for anyone that knows the answer. Earlier I could view the photos. Now I can't. there's just a minus sign where the photos should be.

[ARGOJIM]

I was never able to see pics, maybe it's our browser. Perhaps one of the "bobs" could reformat them for us.

[Rudy_Magnum]

The pictures are just linked from my google photos. Don't know if that creates any problems or not. I used to use photobucket. Let me know if anyone has any other suggestions for photo hosting.

[ARGOJIM]

You can post them in your gallery and then copy and paste either picture or link.

[Rudy_Magnum]

I got the new belt, put it on and took it for a rip. Definitely nicer! Still doesn't go full shift, so will be looking into that a bit more. Will keep you guys up to date on whatever I do.

[dirtdobber]

That's great.