What's so special about the MAX T20 steering transmission? MAX FAQ #2

[Noel Woods]

Dave:
I think you are correct on your last post. The Admiral transmission, with its 3 to 1 ratio steering feature allows a smooth flow of power to the driven wheels to make very sharp turns in thick, pudding mud. I don't think any machine is as easy to control in the thick slop than an Admiral equipped machine.
JP's comments are also spot on, the Admiral is new, sophisticated, and if it breaks is going to be expensive to repair. I only know 4 folks personally that have this set up, so far, all four have had no breakdowns, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Admiral looks solid and reliable. Time will tell.
The t20 is a time proven transmission, bullet proof, relatively easy to work on, as well as compact. I grew up with T20s so nothing feels more natural than this tranny. Its easy to control, and in nearly all situations works perfectly, the only time its at a disadvantage is in very thick, mortar like mud, when cutting the power to one side even for a moment, bogs a machine down somewhat.
Either tranny, works well. It would be a good comparison to put an Admiral in a Max and a T20 in an Argo. Thats the comparison I'd love to see.

[North Country Tough]

It's going to be a BIG difference and I think you'll fall in love with it. It doesn't rob power, lose traction, and wherever you point the machine, it'll go there will all 6 wheels driving when your levers are pushed forward. Actual 6 wheel drive!

Well finally got my Attex home,and got a little stick time,that said its a learning curve having only Argo style for twenty plus years Iam a bit like a chimpanzee pulling levers for a banana,having a hard time adjusting to it,and lesson learned dont backup till your really use to it that brakes back in forward brakes ahead in reverse is a little hard to get use to, already parked on the hood of a old snowmobile in the storage BldgLOL.With the lightness of the SC and the speed with a novice Attex driver at the helm I will practice in the back forty,More to come.Cheers NCT P.S Never pin it while you are at half throttle going in a straight line without both levers fully engaged,lesson learned.ROALMAO

[kunzmm137]

I have had two machines with the t-20 transmission. An older Max II with very few hours on it, and a Hustler that had tons of hours on it. I can personally say that the Max's t-20 has not given me any problems whatsoever, and the Hustler's t-20 gave me nothing but problems. I guess what I am trying to say is that any transmission will wear out with extended use.

What I do find interesting is Recreative's statement #4:
" 4) Low shock loading of the drive train. Since differential steering doubles the speed to the drive train whenever steering is occurring (as explained above), the result is not only jerky turns, but extra shock and stress to the chains, sprockets, axles, etc. Make any kind of turn on any surface with a MAX ATV however, and your drive wheels go the same speed during the turn as they were when going straight. The result is smooth turns under full power and torque, with no excessive stress to the drivetrain."

I find this very untrue with the t-20's. My Hustler had major problems with drivetrain stress. After every ride, I would find that the trans had been pulled loose from its mounts. I know that Hustlers were known for this design flaw, but even after welding the mounting nuts to the frame, after a few rides the welds would be broken. I would say there is a lot of shock stress to the drive train. Think about it, you are going from full power to full brakes and back every time you make a tight turn.
I have not had the tranny come loose on the Max, but the Max has a much stronger mount for the t-20, and I don't see it becoming a problem on that machine.

To wrap it up, the t-20 is a very good transmission, but there are no maintenance free machines, and any of them will wear out over time. I have not driven any other machines without t-20's, but I would love to give them all a try to see each ones pro's and con's.

[jerseybigfoot]

I love my Max4, Max2 ,Hustler and Blackbird with their T-20,s I also love my 05 Argo Bigfoot. Different rides, different pleasures. Kind of like a harem. Sorry I think i will keep all of them.

[flippy]

unfortunatly this is why the atv's keep on selling.I wish the honda would make a 6x6.It would be a geat machine.I recently took my 1977 honda cb750k and went on a ride with my neighbor who has a harley full dresser anniversary model.I have no Idea what the model is ,All I know is that he paid 26grand for it,well we decided to race and my 750 pulled away and it took about 4 miles of freeway driving before he could catch up and slowly pass.He agreed that his couple year old harley should do much better.I like 6x6's but there is a reason why they are not popular.They are basically paddle boats whith angle iron and sprockets added with a heavy duty transmission and a lawnmower engine.They are fun because they are different however until the japanese deem that they are worthwhile and can turn a profit,they will a,lways be oddball machines that the people who like to tinker with will purchase.I have seen honda 3 wheelers driven through swamps with the drivers having their feet on the handlbars because the water is so high.I have spent to much time on you tube watching the 4 wheel atv's with tracks yanking argos's with tracks all over the place.Any trip to a industrial farm tractor dealer will show how all the newer tractor are going to hydraulic drive.Most people have never even seen a argo or max,once they find out the price and the fact that it has no suspension it really comes across as being nothing more than a toy.I have spent a lot of time up north and most people who hunt do not want to drive a hard driving skid steer vehicle when They are stuck driving tractors or semi's or whatever their job entiltles them to do for a living.add the fact of transmission getting ripped out and the cash spent,a foreign 4 wheeler just makes sense.-I do love the 6x6 weirdness factor but untill I see argo's and max's all over I will prefer to save my cash and consider a 6x6 a hobby,much fun but a losing proposition when it comes to trying tol get any kind of return on ones investment.

[jerseybigfoot]

Flippy, why the rant? it is what it is and if you want a return onyour investment buy gold.

[wfo]

i agree, what a
buzz kill

[kadookid]

If these machines are so bad why are you on a forum about them.

[micmac]

Flippy,

Yes they are oddball machine, no they will never appeal to the masses. Sounds like you might be one of the "masses". Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume you currently don't own an amphib. The point is you're not going to appear on this site and succeed in "setting us straight" about our hobby. If you spend some time navigating here you'll see a group nice intelligent people that enjoy a niche hobby for what it is. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the forum other than pedestrian comments I'd say feel free to move along. However if you want to stick around and enjoy the information like the rest of us then welcome.

[jpswift1]

If you're going to make "pedestrian comments" as micmac said (well put!). You should just save yourself the time and save Mike the server space and not post naive and useless comments that aren't helpful to anyone.

You couldn't be more wrong or misinformed about that last post you made, but I'll try to address all of your inaccuracies. First off, Harley's use technology that is extremely outdated and you can't even compare it to your Honda. All Harley's do is cruise. They're not good for handling, accelerating, and your comparison of an AATV and Harley couldn't be more irrelevant. That has nothing to do with why AATVs keep on selling.......that's a completely inaccurate statement that's just totally out in left field. I can see that you don't have much experience with AATVs because they will outperform a quad and it's been proven. Come to one of the Busco Beach, NC rides and you'll see. We've made quite the name for ourselves down there and now very few of the 4 wheeler folks try to follow us through the deep mud holes because they know they can't. They've tried and failed. Even though AATV's are simple, they will outperform a 4 wheeler in the mud......physics is on our side with this argument and it's been proven time and time again. Spend some time researching it and watching all the videos rather than just rattling off uninformed commentary like that.

Next, you say you've spent a lot of time on Youtube watching the 4 wheelers with tracks yanking Argos with tracks all over the place? Hmmmmm do you mean the one or two videos of an old Argo with an open differential transmission and plastic tracks on ice getting pulled by a 4 wheeler with rubber tracks? It's called traction and plastic tracks don't do well on ice, compared to rubber tracks. Just because you've spent time on Youtube watching videos, I don't think that gives you the ability to make an informed judgment about AATVs. Maybe you should spend some more time on Youtube and watch more AATV vs. 4 wheeler videos like ones that the guys like Dan Edwards, MudBug, and Mike have posted of AATVs going through all the terrain that swallows the 4 wheelers. Or even better yet, go out and build and drive AATVs in some extreme terrain like all the other members on the site do and then maybe you can help by contributing some kind of helpful information, not these useless and incorrect ramblings that don't do a thing for anybody on the site.

Next, you say you've spent a lot of time up north and people up there don't prefer a "hard driving" skid steer vehicle for hunting? Tell that to 6X6World members like RockDoctor and all his buddies that actually LIVE up north and drive AATVs because no other vehicle including 4 wheelers can get where an AATV can. You then go on to say that modern tractors are going to hydrostatic drive. OK, well then you should be aware that you can buy AATVs with a hydrostatic drive system as well. The Mudd-Ox, Hydrotraxx, and KID just to name a few are hydrostatic drive.

If you love AATVs so much you should refrain from posting inaccurate comments that don't actually help people out and you should educate yourself some more before you go bashing AATVs based on little experience you have with them. If you want to learn more about them, you've come to the right place because we're a tight knit group that accepts and helps everyone. We'd love to help you out and I've even seen some members offer to meet up with you to go riding. That's how we are here.......it's a small niche market for AATVs (but it's certainly growing fast and strong thanks to the emergence of 6x6World). I've never met a better group of folks that has been there for one another and that's what you'll get with this site. But on the other hand, if you are going to continue to post things like you previously did, I'm going to agree with what other members mentioned and say that you should feel free to move along.

[fmints]

The love we have for what we do, as a way of life and as a hobby, will be carressed by us and defended by all that are opposed! We are who we are, but ignorant we will never be. Join and enjoy or go play balll somewhere else.. And on the site's Anniversary, too,,,,,,,,,!!! It will be ok, your scars will heal over time. We practice positivity!


p.s. gents and gentettes, I've added reputation points to your profile. Consider it a kind gesture for my appreciation of your thoughts and the love for the community that we share!

[hydromike]

I have seen honda 3 wheelers driven through swamps with the drivers having their feet on the handlbars because the water is so high.

Whoa, whoa-WHOA! Their feet were on the HANDLEBARS?! Madness....

<snicker>

I never would have stuck with the scrambler in my younger years but it seems that once I hit 40 patience and respect for the good things in life are worth ones time and effort.6x6's are awesome

Sigh....

[flippy]

Not trying to get everyone upset,I have 2 scramblers one amphicat and 1 attex.I enjoy this sight and the people have helped me in every aspect,without this sight and the good people on it I would never have been able to get my first scrambler going.-I put a 16 hp flat twin briggs in it,I removed the clutch discs and put clutch material on the entire disk,not just on the out cirumference as the manufaturer did.I have a winch's in front and back,I added reverse with a winch motor and I made myown split sprocket and mounted on the main shaft without having to disassemble the trans.I have 20 years experience as a hilo mechanic,hydraulic repairman,stamping presses,motoman robots.rotary dies and laser etching etc etc.I do not want to be a buzz kill.Maybe I am just getting old and cranky,its like the person who has a stock chevy truck that never has a problem with it,but his neighbor has the same truck and puts a ton of money into it beefs everything up then beats on it till everything breaks.Both people can do what they please.I just get a little confused with the attitude sometimes of people.There is no reason to knock any atv,I brought up the 3 wheelers because many people still love them and beat the crap out of them they are not aatv's which is why I found it amazing how the 3 wheelers and 4 wheelers could go through water above the seat!any way-please forgive me-I dont ever expect to make money off of a 6 wheeler.Thats not why I own them-They are a hobby-Not trying to troll,Maybe I spent to much time repairing rollcoaters and gint conveyors and laminating machines that had chains and sprockets!-Hey I can take the abuse-It actually brings a smile to my face!-Now you guys know why my wife dumped me LOL!

[flippy]

well spoken!-I think I should not comment after 12 beers-I live by the motive of criticize things you dont know about.Sarcasm is not easy to convey.I dont know if the aatv's are stock or not,I just get made because I have a nice canal right behind my mothers house but I am scared to take either scrambler in the water do to I have no idea what keeps the water from coming in through the axle bearings,I have had the rear body plugs get pulled out when wheeling so that scares me to.My attex plastic body is complete trash with previos owners tried to fiberglass it.I flipped my recently purchased amphicat upside to inspect and found a huge crck down the entire middle of the body-so maybe the beer and the plain old negativity got the best of me.I do kneed to get with you guys and get straightend out.

[amphibious drew]

Flippy,

Take a look at my gallery's colt concoction build thread. My machine was trash!!! I seriously only bought it for parts and a spare tranny. And you want to talk about cracks, by body had more than down town detroit. Right now it will float no problem. If some goo and effort can make my piece of trash a nice looking racer than anything is possible to fix. BTW the grease and bearing seals keeps the water out, and they will float without plugs for longer than you would think.