Argo falling behind

[john swenson]

thats cute.... sparx, i'm not even sure the polaris rampage could have gotten thru that bog !! j.b.

[liflod]

I found something much more affordable and better than all of those machines your talking about

https://wheeling.craigslist.org/mcy/6043688067.html

[Sparx]

All I see here is some unseen magical brand loyalty for Argo growing old in technology other then EFI which I don't care much for but understand the needs environmentally. It just seems like usual same as the Adair track loyalty on this forum to tear anything apart that could threaten the competition to an Argo. Let's face it, everything about an argo is old and archaic with very little technology anywhere else then maybe their space program. But just like Argo's space program not passing off the technology into an Argo I'm sure Polaris could do the same just as CHEAP as Argo does with their amphibious machines. We obviously don't need night lighting and nuclear harden systems for our use, that's just common sense. Like you guys are trying to find any downfall to knock it down.
I've had almost any off-road type machine there is and to me this seems like the next step. In my environment you need to stay on top cause no depth of snorkel or size of tire is going to keep you going in the skeg and water crossings I need to get across. Bigger tires just get you into bigger trouble, same with snorkels and there is a limitation on overall width despite the many cutlines in the area. The blowdowns can be so bad you need to ride through the trees to go around them as they would take you all day to cut through. The trees up here can be pretty big and heavy to deal with as well.
Here was my 2007 Custom Built Ranger with 8" lift and Tatou 4S UTV tracks buried in a beaver dam. It had over 24" of ground clearance, ran on 6 30" ITP XXL Mudlites when on tires with 6 Gorilla Axles. I broke 3 of the axles getting out of this hole and ripped the front A-arm off from the frame getting it out of this hole after driving through the other direction. My buddies 4 Runner on 35" Super Swampers was over the hood in the same hole just before I got stuck on the berm trying to get out and popped a balljoint out from a front a-arm and broke an anti-rotation rod in the rear on one track...

On tires at Mud Nationals way back in the day...

[crossbowme]

Unfortunately, the price on that vehicle will not be even in the ball park with the Argo. It was/will be built to milspec. That is - operating with night lighting, NVG capable, nuclear/biological/chemical with harden systems. I spent 27 years in the USA and everything designed for combat was at least four times more expensive than civilian. At best you might get something similar to a Hummer H2 as compared to a HUMMV. Another wards not even close.

[allwheeldrive]

I'm confused, everyone seems to have forgotten quickly that this Polaris Rampage floats, swims, and has suspension, goes up to 60mph in comfort? How did that get lost in all this conversation that you have to sacrifice speed and comfort for an amphibious machine when the Rampage proves otherwise?

So sure, even if it comes out to $50,000 fully decked out, I'm already at that between my 6x6 and Argo combined. At least I wouldn't have to haul two machines around to do one job or store one machine after the ground freezes up cause it's so slow to ride and not comfortable putting down a lot of miles on. Be nice to have it all in one machine in the end not worrying about where I'm going and how I plan to get there depending on the circumstances.

I think we digressed into contemporary SxS vs Argos and not the Rampage because I highly doubt it could be built as shown for $50,000. Realize specialized vehicles like this made from steel like Land tamers and hydrotraxx can be over $60,000. Let’s say they COULD build a much simplified and cheapened version for $50,000.

Well I do not think it’s fair to say $50,000 is a “so what” price point. $50,000 will by you 10 nice Max IV’s used. Or a High lifter, Max IV, Argo with Adair tracks and enough spare parts to last a life time. I realize you made a point that one ultimate machine would be better than a couple that you’d have to haul around. But at $50,000 you can buy or build a serious toy. It’s not so much to say that for the price point the Rampage is not your perfect vehicle, but in an open market consumers get quite a lot of options for that much dough and will likely just buy or build a Big Block monster truck mudder or something more outrageous.

[Sparx]

I'm confused, everyone seems to have forgotten quickly that this Polaris Rampage floats, swims, and has suspension, goes up to 60mph in comfort? How did that get lost in all this conversation that you have to sacrifice speed and comfort for an amphibious machine when the Rampage proves otherwise?

For me I would be very interested in selling both my Polaris Ranger 6x6 and Argo 700HD on tracks for one Polaris Rampage. The only downfall I can see in this situation is all the hours on one machine instead of splitting it up between the two and keeping the dirty work primarily for the Argo.

If the Rampage didn't float or swim I wouldn't be interested, but it DOES! The video even proves it and shows it swimming let alone floating. You know how limited an Argo is to swim on tracks, Argo hasn't even been able to do that. It has to be an aftermarket supplier to get an Argo to swim properly or competently on tracks via Adair, Escargo or possibly Channel with work.

This is what I think is the big breakthrough between the side by side and amphibious market that this machine has achieved that Argo could have taken advantage of but has fallen behind.

I've had SxS with tracks and can honestly say in the muskeg and mud it is very close tracks to tracks to an Argo on tracks. But the main fact is a SxS will never float like an Argo in the end, that's why I ended up with an Argo. I love the Argo for that, but it has to swim to be any use to me, so I am limited to the type of tracks I use on it. I'd rather not swim across the many beaver dams and deep 5+ creeks I cross daily.

It seems more dependent on the consistency of the terrain needed to drive across. It has to be thick enough for the tires not to break through for an Argo to float when a SxS or quad breaks through and hangs up more like a sponge then ruts otherwise an Argo is worse when comparing tires to tires. But very rarely is the Argo better on tires then my 6x6 at any level, it needs enough water to float over the ruts and clean the tires... This example would be in say 1-2ft of rutted up muskeg or clay, my 6x6 just shines in this terrain loaded up or unloaded. Just like driving in snow, an Argo is useless on tires anything more than a foot of snow and gets hung up. Tracks, whole different world, so I compare each fairly, track to track, and tire to tire. I would compare the Rampage to a tracked machine cause it's tracked obviously.

The Rampage to me is a cheaper Howe and Howe Ripsaw EV2, lighter too. Just because the parts are mass produced and doesn't have something like a Duramax motor in it. More on the scale comparable to a SxS and Argo under 70" wide. So sure, even if it comes out to $50,000 fully decked out, I'm already at that between my 6x6 and Argo combined. At least I wouldn't have to haul two machines around to do one job or store one machine after the ground freezes up cause it's so slow to ride and not comfortable putting down a lot of miles on. Be nice to have it all in one machine in the end not worrying about where I'm going and how I plan to get there depending on the circumstances.

[crossbowme]

Crossbowme,you really hit the nail on the head here with dealers knowing the product,and getting the word out via advertising,but the big powersport dealers,IMO are not the way to go.
You don't go to a chevy dealer to buy a ford,and you don't buy a ford from someone who drives a subaru,so why would you go to a Polaris dealer with one argo stuck way back in the corner that nobody knows anything about? On the flip side, there is such a narrow market for the argo that it's hard to make a full time business out of just dealing argo,and thats why you see so much of this.
After having a 1995 vanguard for years and putting on over a thousand hours on it,I still had to do a ton of research on which unit I wanted to upgrade to,and what acc./track system was going to work for my application. I did find a dealer that only delt in argo,had all the answers,and sold me what I needed, and that whole experience was awesome.
ODG is very aggressive at trying to get new dealers,but a dealer is only as good as the knowledge....and experience that he has on an argo,and the time and commitment that they are willing to put into it,but sadly,this just isn't the case with so many.For the price you have to pay today for an argo unit,it shouldn't be some dealers "afterthought product"you just need to dig thru the pile of rocks to find the jem.

I agree with you about automobiles. However, around here you'll find dealers that have four or find power sport brands under one roof. I guess they were the ones I was referring to. In any case Argo has to get off there butts and get the word out.

[ARGOJIM]

I would love to see an Aggressive sales program in the area, and my thoughts are that a medium sized dealer in the area could move 6-10 machines a month to start and grow from there.

Hell Argo would like to see that.

[Noel Woods]

I just made it home from the Highlifter Mud Nationals in Jacksonville, Tx., this year it was myself in my yellow 8x8 Frontier, and Ty Clark with his older Argo 8x8, I was surprised at the quantity of people that came up and took digitals of our machines, and just wanted to talk. I think an aggressive dealer presence would definitely enhance sales. The event was at Mud Creek ATV park, but there is also nearby Soggy Bottoms ATV park in Louisiana and River Run ATV park in Neches, Tx. That's three large atv parks within a few hours of Shreveport, La, Tyler and Dallas, Tx.

I would love to see an Aggressive sales program in the area, and my thoughts are that a medium sized dealer in the area could move 6-10 machines a month to start and grow from there.

[Coast2Coast]

I could argue that today's SxS will probably outperform a non-tracked stock AATV in the kind of mud and muck that accompanies amphibious operation.

I have to disagree there in general. I've never used tracks on my machines in the summer and they outperform all side by sides and atvs in the muskeg type mud around my area. I watched them ram and tear all moose season with the big $30,000 high lifter side by sides. There is one particular stretch of about 1km where a group of 3 of these big side by sides tried to access and they took over 2 hours to travel it, winching every 5 minutes and tearing up the skeg in a chaotic fashion scaring every game animal within 10 miles with all the noise. They were so beat they gave up and turned back to camp and didn't hunt at all that day lol. We traveled this same trail with ease at 4am on our stock 8x8s about 10 times over the season and it was a 10 minute trip .

The argos will get screwed up in ruts where a side by side with 30" tires will appear to outperform it but you just have to learn to keep yourself from hi centering in those ruts.

[foxvalley]

I agree,4 wheels can compete with 6 or 8 wheels, we see it all the time in Jacksonville TX,( without tracks). At this point, I believe the operator to make all the difference with his experience,or lack thereof. One of the best argo drivers w/o tracks was from AK,and he went...just about all the same places as the tracked vehicles could,it was fun to watch him pick apart a mudhole. He also won a big trophy/cash at one of the races at Mud Nationals.

[allwheeldrive]

i think we can all agree on this. to go amphibious you obvious ally need to sacrifice things like speed and comfort

I think that is a fair statement, if there was a better way to make something float and go off road it would have come out by now. I could argue that today's SxS will probably outperform a non-tracked stock AATV in the kind of mud and muck that accompanies amphibious operation. But it is reasonable to point out that any sort of professional operation isn't going to expect their employees to wade neck high in frigid water not to mention the fact that SxS will utterly rut and tear up the worst roads into oblivion before getting stuck. An AATV while potentially not quiet as good in such circumstances will never have the same level of environmental impact making them far more suited for actual day to day work on the wet same trails.

Also it should be noted I am only considering non-tracked AATVs As Tracks are a modification even if offered from the factory. Granted once tracks go on... there is NO comparisons to ANY vehicle, even tracked SxS only have a tiny % of the capacity of a tracked Argo.

I think it's true though sales are the hardest part. Even if Argos are "better" off road. Most people today into off road motorsports are so spoiled with speed they will sacrifice functionality for that speed high and go with a SxS, so yes maybe Argos are fine it's just the purchasing audience that are the problem lol

[foxvalley]

You and I may may want more exotic machines but that really isn't Argo's problem. There problem is visibility. Since I bought my Argo I have had dozens of people come up to me and ask about Argo. Almost all of them said they were going to find a dealer and check them out. They really need to get the word out like Can Am did with their Spyders. They also need to get dealers who know their product and really want to sell Argos. I have been to four dealers so far and all them sold Argos as an after thought. When you ask about them they'll try and sell them. Otherwise they have some other product they're trying to push. They need to get them into the big power sport dealerships.

Crossbowme,you really hit the nail on the head here with dealers knowing the product,and getting the word out via advertising,but the big powersport dealers,IMO are not the way to go.
You don't go to a chevy dealer to buy a ford,and you don't buy a ford from someone who drives a subaru,so why would you go to a Polaris dealer with one argo stuck way back in the corner that nobody knows anything about? On the flip side, there is such a narrow market for the argo that it's hard to make a full time business out of just dealing argo,and thats why you see so much of this.
After having a 1995 vanguard for years and putting on over a thousand hours on it,I still had to do a ton of research on which unit I wanted to upgrade to,and what acc./track system was going to work for my application. I did find a dealer that only delt in argo,had all the answers,and sold me what I needed, and that whole experience was awesome.
ODG is very aggressive at trying to get new dealers,but a dealer is only as good as the knowledge....and experience that he has on an argo,and the time and commitment that they are willing to put into it,but sadly,this just isn't the case with so many.For the price you have to pay today for an argo unit,it shouldn't be some dealers "afterthought product"you just need to dig thru the pile of rocks to find the jem.

[crossbowme]

You and I may may want more exotic machines but that really isn't Argo's problem. There problem is visibility. Since I bought my Argo I have had dozens of people come up to me and ask about Argo. Almost all of them said they were going to find a dealer and check them out. They really need to get the word out like Can Am did with their Spyders. They also need to get dealers who know their product and really want to sell Argos. I have been to four dealers so far and all them sold Argos as an after thought. When you ask about them they'll try and sell them. Otherwise they have some other product they're trying to push. They need to get them into the big power sport dealerships.

[curtisbyrne]

i think we can all agree on this. to go amphibious you obvious ally need to sacrifice things like speed and comfort but you cant compare and Argo to a side by side or anything.... an Argo is its own breed its an xtv not an atv or utv. compare Argos to Argos because there will never be an end to threads like these where they ask whats better? a side by side or an Argo.... its impossible to compare them when they are both 2 completely different vehicles. so there i think Argo is a great success and will be for the future,yes its always behind in the side by side market but the aatv or xtv market they are right at the top.