Argo falling behind

[allwheeldrive]

As far as ODG chugging along with it's lawnmower engine and chains,why fix it if it's not broken.There is a lot to be said for KISS.(keep it simple stupid)

Does the 6 / 8 wheeler really apply to KISS? Does any off road vehicle apply any less to Kiss than a 6 / 8 wheeler? I figure we all enjoy the challenge of driving, using, and maintaining something too temperamental for the "normal" consumers which make us unique, which we clearly like.

If it goes off road KISS would apply to things like, dirt bikes, VW baja bugs, ATCs, TerraJets maybe. SxS have a LOT going on at once, but they are designed to be pretty efficient like the automobile. Any time I've jacked a 6x6 up with the body off and seen all those chains, clutches, cables, bearings, tensioners all whirring, spinning and clunking along I think to myself "No wounder I work on this more than drive it"

Though you are right, I don't know how you can make a ridged skid steer vehicle much simpler at a price some people could afford.

[foxvalley]

One thing to consider is that ODG only sells a handfull of these units. I saw the figure in a document somewhere how many units they sold last year, it was a shockingly low figure, only 150 or so if I remember correctly? Maybe it was 1500? Still, considering there are 300,000+ UTVs sold in North America alone every year, there's a lot more money there to develop such a machine and bring costs down, while argo still chugs along with it's 1960esque chain/sprockets/lawn mower engine for $30,000.

I'm guessing more like 1,500 units,last I heard a while back, there are aprox. 600 new units coming into the states every year. No idea if the 1,500 includes the worldwide market.
As far as ODG chugging along with it's lawnmower engine and chains,why fix it if it's not broken.There is a lot to be said for KISS.(keep it simple stupid)I'ts not that ODG isnt keeping up with technology,you just can't get away,or incorporate the features of a SXS into an argo,and still have an argo.
How many brands of the 300,000 utvs sold in the US. have a space program,or better yet a military program,and contracts,and who was one of,if not the first to design and build the first 3 wheeler,from where all other atvs where morfed from?ODG. The gear division is just another example where they make extremely tight tolerance gearing, the smallest is in just about every gas meter,to some of the biggest used in the logging industry,not to mention the trannys in the argos.
The argo right now has a fairly narrow market,one of the reasons being it's more of a utilatarian vehicle,get you in, and get you out,of just about any situation,where the larger UTV market is geared towards speed,comfort on high ground,where most of the market is. Having a farm, and lots of low ground,I never understood the use of a 4 wheeler, or SXS when one of my tractors does the same thing, just slower,and the argo gets me around everywhere else.

[curtisbyrne]

wow.... you really put the argo into reality when you said that lol north country tough.

[plott hound]

if only Honda would develop an aatv,now that would be something!

[North Country Tough]

[Coast2Coast]

One thing to consider is that ODG only sells a handfull of these units. I saw the figure in a document somewhere how many units they sold last year, it was a shockingly low figure, only 150 or so if I remember correctly? Maybe it was 1500? Still, considering there are 300,000+ UTVs sold in North America alone every year, there's a lot more money there to develop such a machine and bring costs down, while argo still chugs along with it's 1960esque chain/sprockets/lawn mower engine for $30,000.

[foxvalley]

Hey man:
Thanks for jumping in on this, I am glad to hear Argo is getting the price down on at least this model, that should move some machines. You are right about the marketing irregularity, it does seem strange, although that's about where a Polaris Ranger and similar models start.
Sorry you guys won't make it to the Mud Nationals this year. Will definitely miss you guys and all the fun. Maybe next year you will make it again.

Yes,planning on next year. Glad you are going, just in case Tye decides to turn his conquest into a submarine again.........

[Noel Woods]

Hey man:
Thanks for jumping in on this, I am glad to hear Argo is getting the price down on at least this model, that should move some machines. You are right about the marketing irregularity, it does seem strange, although that's about where a Polaris Ranger and similar models start.
Sorry you guys won't make it to the Mud Nationals this year. Will definitely miss you guys and all the fun. Maybe next year you will make it again.

[foxvalley]

ODG just came out with the argo 6x6 "SE" for $8,995.00 to directly compete with the SxS market,and I have a hard time understanding this, as both units are so vastly different, not only in design, but in application. The SXS is made for comfort and speed,and ease of getting in and out, these are just a few qualities that are impossible for the argo to compete with,as they are made for something completely different. An argo is made to get you in and out without getting stuck, in just about any terrain, or weather condition,deep snow, deep swamp etc.,and speed,comfort (suspension),and ease of getting in and out, like an SXS, will likely never happen in an amphibious unit, as they are made for different applications.
An argo XTV,exterme terrain vehicle,is just that,an extreme terrain vehicle,made to go just about everywhere a SXS can't. I like the fact, that I own a unit that will get me anywhere I need to go, any time of the year,and in any weather condition,unlike the fair weather ATV market,that makes you think they can go anywhere, and do anything.....great marketing!
Can't do much about the cost of an argo,but some of the SXS are just as pricey,but you can look back 20 years, and see that an old conquest, or vanguard still holds over 50% of it's value,something that you will never see with a SXS! Expensive,yes,but anything that can hold it's value for so long is a great investment,better than most any car or truck manufacturer today.
Noel,going to miss you again at mud nationals,also sounds like Mike and Tim aren't going,but Tye sounds like he will be there.

[North Country Tough]

You make some fine points Noel no doubt cost vrs a changes is a tough pill to swallow though I still think that outboard motors are still on the top of the list for cost with little advance but do challenge you on the more balanced platform/ergonomics statement,now this is not going to turn into a bashing fest but fact is for what I use my machine for I can not imagine not having direct access to my passenger/cargo compartment as far as balance I would assume you are referring to the nose down in the water deal since the bulk of the machines loading capacity is in the rear it travels as close to level for me as required no different than anything else in the water you dont load a boat all on one side or the front,climbing and descending I myself have went down slopes that I really wished I hadn't way to steep and with judicious use of the brakes was able to get down safely.As far as a Argo ability to traverse the Canadian shield I see no difference where the engine is mounted and have used rear mount models in the same conditions.The outdoor products manufacturers are going to have to face a stark reality for sure and your 7500. model would sell no doubt there has been some movement in that direction from Bombardier in their watercraft line as they introduced the Spark a bare bones reasonably priced water scooter and sales were huge its my hopes that more of the same shows up across the outdoor recreational market,snowmobiles/outboard motors/boats/and wheelers all are way overpriced this is not a point to argue could and can they do it of course.NCT

[Noel Woods]

My point earlier is that a mid grade Argo has gone up price wise by a large margin, and the technology you get for that price just hasn't evolved accordingly. Price an Argo 8x8 then compare that price and what you get for the money to say the Mudd Ox Vengeance model (T20 equipped version). Both machines have similar power, but the Ox has a more balance platform and better ergonomics. I do really like the Argo line, but the prices have just risen to the point that I know few folks that are buying new. Sales have got to be down, even though it appears the quality and features have gotten better. Then look at the more upscale Argo models, and with a few options you are talking pricing in the mid to upper $20k range. I wish Argo would get back to producing the Frontier line with the smaller engines like they did a few years back. I remember when $8000 would buy a great machine with solid splined axles, #60 chains, and you could switch out the motors for something more powerful a couple years down the road.
I think most consumers would jump at a $7500 amphib if someone was smart enough to get it to the market. I'd like to offer that challenge to the manufacturers, and see what they can come up with, don't let the Chinese beat you to the market. Think outside the box, a vertical engine and hydraulic drive would really cut costs.

[North Country Tough]

Seen plenty of twisted off Argo axles in my time hard to imagine the forces there, created from a low hp number with boat loads of torque,side by sides are great,marvel of engineering like a down sized Baja mobile I would like to have one for sure the big bonus is the ease of getting in and out off and for a lot of my uses would be just fine the Argo is a workhorse meant to transport people and materials over a wide range of terrain all seasons and amphibious if the side by was amphibious it would sure hurt AATV sales.NCT

[allwheeldrive]

You don't want to be talking to this guy about Polaris toughness, trust me... LOL. Sorry it did not work out for you, but many would say Argo's aren't tough and a pain in the butt for maintenance as well. All in the eye of the beholder. I for one own something of almost every brand, make, and model or at least have tried and worked on them extensively. If I really did have to pick one brand, it would be Polaris and I'm not very brand loyal at any level.

I hate to agree, but HP is the number one determining factor of breakage. The faster you make something go, the more kinetic energy it carries and the faster it snaps stuff when it hits things.

I've seen Polaris SxS do stuff that made them look like hobby grade RC cars, bounce of their roofs, barrel roll down rocks end over end, still running and drive away with the driver only dazed. The fact Polaris can break at all is a testament to how over powered they are. I mean I've seen more than one Polaris Razor blow the front diff, but where talking machines with 70-110 HP full throttler lockers engaged. Stuff no truck, car, bike could survive.
Image an Argo or Max with 100 HP. Image how fast they would disintegrate going over whoop de doo at 80 MPH. Now image a Razor 1000 with a 18HP Brigs... It wouldn't break, it couldn't. A sub 25 HP Razor could probably plow into anything and everything all day long and be abused to the point that the Top gear Hilux would look frail. That's the difference. These SxS go fast because they can survive going fast. Equal the playing field and restrict their top speed to 25 MPH and well they'd be indestructible.

Also nice rig Sparx

[curtisbyrne]

i think Argo is good the way it is now. maybe make a model with suspension but always keep the good old Argo design for people who want one.

[Noel Woods]

I've always thought that the amphib manufacturers have left a lot to be desired in terms of maintenance, power, and desirability. If they could just give us that 40hp+ Polaris 570cc motor to start. Air cooling is self defeating for me in the hot and humid area I live. The current transmissions will work for awhile. The body design leaves something to be desired. A springer style suspension would be a good option along with tracks. A more balanced machine would also be desirable.