ARGO Conquest to HDI Bearing Conversion (Vids)

[Rock Doctor]

OK RD, it has been a year & 4 months since the bearings went in. Some of us, if not most of us, are curious if the HDI bearings are holding up & about how many hours are on them? Are they keeping the water out? Pro, Cons, would you do anything different?
Thanks for all your help & research.

Geologic,

my 2 cents. Go for the HDI bearings. I changed my front bearing last year. No problems. Worth the extra few bucks.

Derek

Add my 2 cents to Derek's, it's been a great upgrade. Only one issue so far, and that was my fault. I did not tighten up the setscrews enough on one mid axle, and the axle shaft spun in the Outer Bearings "Inner Race". So, of course, by the time I noticed it, the hardened race had worn into the axle shaft a bit. It's not too bad, but I had to dimple the shaft to sink the setscrews into it a bit to correct the problem. This particular bearing is also now a bit loose in the carriers, which NONE of the others are, so I attribute this to the backed off setscrews as well. We spent about 8 weeks out at our remote cabin this summer, and used the Argo every day. I don't appear to have much, if any leakage. ALL bearings are still "solid as a rock". The only "Con" I can think of right now is to do with the bolts I used on the install. As mentioned I had to use regular "hex" head bolts instead of the old Carrage bolts, which means that I have to hold both the bolt and the nut to tighten/loosen. That's a bit of a PITA, but not impossible. As for hours on the bearings........this is a guess, but I will say 120-150hrs with some seriously heavy loads. All winter was spent on tracks, again with some heavy loads. I ended up having to change my chains this fall, which is a full yr earlier than I thought I would have had to do them. This was, in my opinion, due to the amount of time I spent on the tracks in the winter.
So, in conclusion, I will say that I love the new bearing configurations and will be converting my daughters Conquest over at some point. It sees much less use than mine, so will probably change them out through attrition.

Rock Doctor, I signed up for this just to see how well the 24" tires would fit on my 2001 conquest. Adair Argo told me to join so I could read your posts. Now that I've already ordered and received all new stock bearings and seals, I read this post and wonder if I should go HD. I have my 227 hour CB19178 conquest that is completely apart. The tires are rotten and I have spent a small fortune for all new bearings seals brakes carb etc. Give us your recipe for a conquest this age please.

Without a doubt, I would take all the old style bearing parts back and exchange for the new HDI upgrade. One thing though, you will either have to replace your Bearing Extensions in the front and rear axles, OR, have yours machined out to accept the new Inner Bearing Carrier ( The 2001 Bearing Extensions have the Inner Bearing Carrier "built in". 2002's and up need to have an Inner Bearing Carrier installed behind the Bearing, same as a Mid Axle. You can easily check this by looking at your assembled bearing extension. If you can see the edge of 2 gaskets in the assembly, you have the newer extensions, if you can see one gasket edge, you have the older style extensions)

What I would do to that Conquest????
Start with the Trans, is it High, Med or Low geared? Look at the number stamped on the top of the trans, does it end with HU, MU, or GU? (High, Med, Low gearing). Not a lot you can do about it, but I would like to see GU (Low Geared). (MU is good too, but IMHO, HU is too high geared)
Feel the Clutch Faces, with those low hrs, I would expect them to be fine, but improper operation can cause premature wear of the faces. If they are smooth, or just have a bit of wear, they are fine, if you can feel ridges/bumps, keep in mind that it will not operate to its fullest capabilities. (I've seen some pretty bad ones with up to about 1/8" worn off the faces and some bad transition bumps)
I would shim the Primary spring with a spacer about 5/32" thick (Increases Engagement RPM a bit and slows down the rate of Upshift).
I would also tighten the Secondary Spring a notch or two (Increases the rate of Downshift) (Your preferance and riding conditions will dictate this)
Definatly upgrade the Bearings
24" Frontier Tires, OR, Adair Tracks depending on what you want ( I want one of each, but have not scraped together cash for the tracks yet)
Front Pushbar/Winch Guard and Rear Rack are a MUST (weld single "chain links" on rack, under the top rail, as "tiedown points").
I very much like the 27hp Kawi engine in my Conquest (Light mods required to Mounting Plate). It does NOT make the Argo much faster, but the increased HP is very nice.
BLOCK OFF the Warm Air Intake on the Air Filter Housing. It helps a little.
ALWAYS carry some Gasline Anti-freeze, and a bit of ATF with you. If you ever have to ( and you will) use old fuel, add some of each to your gas tank, it will keep your valves from sticking and causing your Pushrods to bend. It happens, they DON'T like old fuel.
Put a small tool box together, and ONLY use those tools to work on your machine (don't forget a small extension Magnet). Eventually, you will have every tool you need to do most repaires in one little box.
Spare parts, you should carry the basics with you: Bearings, seals, gaskets, master links, Brake kit, Tappet Cover Gasket, Carb Springs/bushings, hand cleaner, Plug Kit, Air Comp, Either, ect. "Murphy's Law says that if you have parts with you, you probably won't need them"
I despise the stock battery location, moved mine to the back rack.
Get into the habit of flicking your trans into reverse first, then into Low or High, this will help reduce trans grinding. Even if your trans does NOT grind going into gear right now, it will under some conditions, example: running in colder temps than normal can cause an increase in idle RPM.
If you have a windshield, put glass in it, or take it off. Don't use Lexan or Plexi, both will scratch very easy and very fast.
Lean away from "Half-links", have one just in case, but if your chains are stretched enough to cut a link out and fit a half link, the chains are in need of replacing.

Hope that's enough for now

RD


Oh ya, welcome to the site

[Geologic]

wow!!! That is a response. I needed that, getting frustrated with my build because everything I take apart needs more than I thought it would. Your enthusiasm is contagious. People like you make sites like this valuable. Thanks again. I have many photos to show but they are all on my iPhone which I need to set up a photobucket account to share. I'll work on it. Unfortunately, the local MS dealers are not serious about keeping the product going. I have purchased most of my parts long-distance and it won't be easy to switch them out for the HD version. I have everything here waiting for me to put it back now. Axles were worn badly where seal rides so walnut shell blasted the paint off so I can swap the mid axles to the front and rear and vice versa. This will give me new sealing surfaces out of my old axles. Now I've got to repaint them with the opposite pattern before I can rebuild. Also I haven't changed the seals out in my old hubs yet. I just keep spending. Guess I should give them a call and see if a swap is doable. I do have the old axle extensions so I'll need to change that too. The two main things that failed on my machine are the outer bearings (mid mainly) and the brake cooling duct (melted onto disc). Argo has sent me the top mounted cooling duct replacement but I had already pulled the engine and tranny. Turns out that the last guy to service the brakes knocked the seal out of the tranny bearing trying to pry the rotor off. I'm deep in it but I have experienced the joy of using an Argo for 30 years (third one) and it's a great portal to the outdoors. Hope I can finsh before hunting season. Bless you all,
geologic

[Geologic]

Do you do a lot of swimming Rock Doctor? I talked to Argo tech and they said that the only problem with the new HD set-up is water intrusion. How do you think this system keeps the water out compared to the double sealed stock Argo bearing?

[Rock Doctor]

Do you do a lot of swimming Rock Doctor? I talked to Argo tech and they said that the only problem with the new HD set-up is water intrusion. How do you think this system keeps the water out compared to the double sealed stock Argo bearing?

No, I do NOT swim my Argo's much (Usually to heavy to float, lol), but I DO run through LOTS of water. Quite honestly, that was my biggest concern when switching over to these bearing assemblies. Unlike the older style, these ones actually have the Bearing shield exposed to the elements, there is NO OUTER SEAL. There is also no seal between the Inner Bearing Race and the Axle. It became a bigger concern to me after I took my tires off the first time after the conversion. The new bearing Shields were all rusty and gross looking.
Almost every time I greased my argo with the old bearing assembly, I would get water oozing out the seals. Very visable, water seems to get in relativly easy. NOW, with the new assembly's, when I grease the bearings, after a pump or two, I can see the Bearing Shield push out just a tiny bit (Could probably push it right off if I grease it too much), but have NOT noticed any contamination. I see no reason why water does not enter by oozing between the Axle Shaft and the Inner Bearing Races, but it does not seem to be much of an issue. I also suspected that water might get in by traveling between the Bearing Outer Race and the Bearing Carrier, but It seem that the grease pumped in there seals it fairly well.
The new bearings are "Tripple Sealed", whatever that means, and the Shields on the outside of the Seals appear to be doing their job.

Short answer: I have no complaints yet

RD

[Rock Doctor]

I have purchased most of my parts long-distance and it won't be easy to switch them out for the HD version. geologic

This comment got me thinking

Not all users really need to consider changing over to the new HD Bearing Assemblies. You are on your 3rd Argo, you obviously have experience in this area. So, keeping in mind how much you used your machines in the past, and how often you had to change bearings out...................... Do you still feel you need an upgrade?

My daughters Conquest is 6yrs older than mine, but has about half the hrs that mine has. Also, I always carry the Lions share of the loads. She has run that machine for the last 2 Summers and one Winter. If it had been run like mine, it would probably be in need of several new bearings. As it is, ALL bearings are tight and ready to go some more.

If I was in your situation, I might consider installing the bearing assemblies you have, and maybe change them out through atrition, as they fail. Remember, you can change out the old style bearing 4-5 times for the price of one new assembly.


RD

[Geologic]

Great point, I think I'll get all of these new ones in triple seal, I have about 3 old style and put this rig together.

[reichstall]

just finshed up redoing my conquest there is a little bit of work to do it all.the new ext are beefier looking than stock,I found that i used the bolt on the end of the shaft to seat bearing the outter part of s.aft the flat for the set screw was placed off 3/16 on end shaft and 1/8 off on mid. frame needed cleaned out for race to fit frame and they are tight .but like rd i cant see how they are going to keep water out .but mine will swim so we will find out.I didnt have enough faith that i added a bilge to it whild i had her down/

[Obsessed]

Hi Derek,
No I did not have to change my Bearing Extensions. My Conquest is a 2006, if you have one that is a 2002 or older I believe they would have to be changed or machined out (2002 or older have the inner bearing retainer built in. Units with the inner bearing retainer built in only require one cork gasket, units without the inner retainer built in need a seperate inner retainer, just like the mid axles, and require 2 cork gaskets)

I did not HAVE to use Carriage Bolts, actually anything else would have been better but I could not get anything long enough (need bolts about 7" long to work). What I did was use the original Carriage bolts, but the new Outer Retainers are not made to accept Carriage Bolts, so I had to grind off the square part under the bolt head. This caused the problem that now I had no way to stop the bolt from turning when I tried to tighten them up, so I had to weld a nut on the top of each bolt.
Very "Roundabout" way to do it, but it was the best I could do at the moment.

The new HDI Bearing Extensions are different. Instead of a bolt right through with a nut inside the body, like a Conquest, they have short bolts that go through the Outer Bearing Retainer, through the gaskets, and thread into the Bearing Extension (NO nuts on the end of the bolts, inside the body).

Hope that helps

Just a note: I will be changing out those "Bastardized" Carriage Bolts, and replacing them with "Normal" bolts, as required.
Also, The short Carriage Bolts that were used for the mid axles had to be replaced with "Normal" bolts as well. The added thickness of the new Outer Retainers makes the original bolts too short, as well, they are not made to accept the Carriage Bolt head.

RD

RD...just wanted to pass on some help for your next rebuild...rather than modifying the frame on the center axles and changing out the axle bearing extentions, you can use an adapter kit to make the upgrade simple and easy...here is a picture of a '96 conquest
Tim

[reichstall]

update on swimming bearing after 2.5 in lake swimmind in low range had less that one oz water and really had no idea how these new bearing keep it out.but they do. now looking for 9 hp outboard we live be the lake and can use it to acess some real sweet ridding spots.worth the change up

[Obsessed]

update on swimming bearing after 2.5 in lake swimmind in low range had less that one oz water and really had no idea how these new bearing keep it out.but they do. now looking for 9 hp outboard we live be the lake and can use it to acess some real sweet ridding spots.worth the change up

I think that the reason they dont leak after the first use is that when they are new and clean there can be a few drips, but after they get a bit of a mud bath and that seeps in between the axle and bearing, it pretty well plugs up any little drips. What we usually do is use a thin bead of silicone on a new machine before it leaves and then they never leak....but either way it will probably take care of itself...

just my thoughts

Tim

[BARE]

I assume since there are pictures mine are shipping soon.

[RoverDan]

Can anyone tell me where I can buy cheaper Bearing Kits ?? At $80 a wheel, I can't afford to redo all at once, And I REALLY REALLY want too !!. Just bought my '96 Conquest from a Duck Hunter in Baton Rouge La, And Redoing EVERYTHING before hitting any serious trips (Most trips are by myself). Wanting to replace all the Bearings and be done for a while. Just did the new Chains, Tires, And Bought new Tracks !!!! Already drowning in cost of repairs.. Please Help !!.

[BigJoe]

Do u think a $1000 can is a good price for a complete hdi bearing upgrade for a 2007 avenger 8 wheel and that includes the front and rear ext. even though I don't need them This guy paid $1400US but sold his Argo before he could use them.thanks

[curtisbyrne]

at $91 a tire do the math,but when shipping gets included your well over 1000 bucks. do what max does or what im doing..... just use the old style bearings but with just 2 flanges without the big outer grease and seal flange. same set up basically!