Max or Argo

[hydromike]

I do not see what the big deal is about the T-20 and the claim it is all wheel drive. They all are all wheel drive or they would not go straight when they swim. The Argo I have seams to be fairy posy contrary to the claims made on this T-20 loving website. The Argo that I have seam to have a very strong 2speed+ reverse transmission. The T-20 is a one speed

... Yes, the T-20 happens to be a "one-speed" transmission that is also infinitely variable with the CVT setup. I agree that there is a great benefit to having a low range, which I think the T-20 would benefit from. I'm not going to try to start a huge argument about which is better, but the two transmissions are honestly very, very different.

As dozens and dozens of posts have explored (this board and others...) the T-20 essentially functions as two transmissions sharing a common "sump" and input shaft. One side drives the left, the other drives the right. The Argo is truly an open differential. Truly. I've seen Argo drivers climb up/over/around/through things that a Max has stalled short of. Can you boil the entire thing down to "the transmission caused it"? Uhhhh... no. People like both transmissions for several reasons. Each has its' own downfall.

~m

[Mike]

I do not see what the big deal is about the T-20 and the claim it is all wheel drive. They all are all wheel drive or they would not go straight when they swim.

That is a misleading statement. Yes, they both are all wheel drive. Can they both put power to all wheels equally? No.

[fulleraviation]

Manufacturer Support

Hey Guys,

I have only had one machine: Max IV. I have had a really great experience with Recreatives Industry. I have spoken to sales, parts, and tech. throughout my brief ownership so far and have received red carpet service.

How are the Argo guys to deal with? Hopefully just as supportive!

Rutledge Fuller

[jerseybigfoot]

Let me throw this out there to for you think about. The t-20 is only all wheel drive in the direction he planetary is powered in. When you apply the brake on one side, that side is no longer powered. Yes you can slip the power to one side to make powered turns but this is difficult with spring loaded laterals as the sensitivity is lost. Most of the time you are steering with a coast (planetary disengaged) or braked turn. Those with Hustlers and Attex's know the feeling of controlled slip.
The Argo's can fake the same condition by applying a little hand brake on the tee handle machines and other techniques with the laterals on the older machines.
if you want all wheel drive you have to go to hydrostatics. If I recall the variable belt drive on the Musketeer was also all wheel drive.. It's all up to the driver.

[Robio_8x8]

I Will

Robio, have you posted pictures of your Argo ?

I will when the snow melts. I didn't have the funds to get tracks this winter so it is now under allot of snow now . This was a weird year ,it went from summer to winter at a flick of a switch. I even had to dig my sled out and just buy another trailer .I will get it all done as soon as the snow melted but we just got another healthy dump of snow Friday . It is not pretty but it runs fine. I am also getting a used 6x6 soon which I will post as soon as I get it .

[mightymaxIV]

T-20

Let me throw this out there to for you think about. The t-20 is only all wheel drive in the direction he planetary is powered in. When you apply the brake on one side, that side is no longer powered. Yes you can slip the power to one side to make powered turns but this is difficult with spring loaded laterals as the sensitivity is lost. Most of the time you are steering with a coast (planetary disengaged) or braked turn. Those with Hustlers and Attex's know the feeling of controlled slip.
The Argo's can fake the same condition by applying a little hand brake on the tee handle machines and other techniques with the laterals on the older machines.
if you want all wheel drive you have to go to hydrostatics. If I recall the variable belt drive on the Musketeer was also all wheel drive.. It's all up to the driver.

Sorry man but I strongly disagee, My Max IV T-950 is loaded with heavy springs but I can can control the t-20 and slip one side with a lot of control. When I am in the water I can pull back on the left lever and watch the left tires continue to spin. T-20 has a high degree of control with limited slip and braking action when you need it! Also the t-20 will NEVER send power to the side with the least traction like the Argo will in extreme conditions! Argo is nice machine and will do a lot of things well but give me that t-20 control and six wheel drive in extreme conditions! I can also lossen my springs or take them off completely if I want that ATTEX type control. I have tried losening the springs and found that the spring loaded levers are more advantagous for most driving conditions!

[Roger S]

OK, GOT IT hehe

What will ya think when a frontier climbs out of a slippery hole you can't make with all your wheels flailing. And the driver does it with a drink or a cigar in one hand just having fun here..

If all wheel drive is the only factor considered, why not sell all the maxs and argos and buy Matt's Mudd Ox. You still get two sticks to hold and never have to shift a transmission. It's so odd to ride with him and watch that thing turn/spin.

[jerrynuss]

I'd think it is time for new tires.

[mightymaxIV]

OK, GOT IT hehe

What will ya think when a frontier climbs out of a slippery hole you can't make with all your wheels flailing. And the driver does it with a drink or a cigar in one hand just having fun here..

If all wheel drive is the only factor considered, why not sell all the maxs and argos and buy Matt's Mudd Ox. You still get two sticks to hold and never have to shift a transmission. It's so odd to ride with him and watch that thing turn/spin.

Roger, don't mean to be disrespectful here but the frontier has good tires and ground clearance, and ground clearance is king. They also have good balance, which helps you to lean where the traction is best. As for them out performing my MAX, I don't believe it! I will have to see it for myself! I am strongly considering a frontirer as a second vehicle as we speak, but I don't believe it could follow my MAX into some of the extreme areas I go into! A mud ox would be nice, and that was also a vehicle that I was considering. Everything seems to have it's limitations a plus here and a minus there!

[Roger S]

Just pulling your chain, Dan, as it was dangling in front of me I used to go on rides in my response with runamuks, trying to follow max IV's, so I have no illusions about what they can do. Now if we're arguing transmissions, I don't have anything bad to say about a t20, other than they're a borg warner design and I never worked on anything made by them I liked. And they're linkage is a bit delicate. But being split drives without any power loss when turning is a huge star on the test paper. Even if they broke on a regular basis, I'd use it 'cause they work like a skid steer trans should.

Taller tires and ground clearance seems like a plus, but I don't see it always works that way. It may be the difference in terrian we ride in. Some soupy mud holes we go through have had trucks with 40" tires rutting them up, making a 5ft deep silt pond. Havn't seen any monster mud tires swim like they need to. I'm talking about a specific hole at the Badlands park. Oddly enough, I made it through the easiest, and with lousy swimming tires. Due to standing in the back of my 8, leveling the big displacement of the 8's tub made it float very high, so it didn't have very much depth to climb out of. Now that was the exception. The more we ride, watching different people and machines, someone's always doing something different and unexpected.

[mightymaxIV]

Roger,your still the man, I would like to see what you could do with some 24" Argo tires on your machine! I am sure you could swim like a fish but I'am not sure they would be as good as your Carlise tires for climbing up those steep banks that no else even wants to try! Again certain advantages with certain machines and certain tires! By the way, speaking of soupy mud, it was this kind of mud that got my max stuck when it had the 26" inch Goodyears and was the main reason I went to Swamp Foxes and Vampires. I haven't been stuck in that soupy mud hole since! You probably have seen this video but this is the mud hole thaT USED TO STICK MY MAX.

[Mike]

Dan, you are relentless man! I don't think my back would last riding with you

[Robio_8x8]

I knew this would get you guys going

That is a misleading statement. Yes, they both are all wheel drive. Can they both put power to all wheels equally? No.

If you want to cause a big fuss just say something negative about the t-20

When or if I blow my Argo Trans I will try out this t-20, it should fit .

Could some one give me the dimensions of a t-20

[jpswift1]

There are many different machines out there that used the Borg Warner T-20, so maybe you could find a second AATV with the T-20 in it. You can never have too many AATVs!

And Dan, you are the man when it comes to deep extreme mud boggin'! I can't imagine any other AATV besides the Mud Ox that could stick with you in the terrain you navigate......except possibly my Hustler 980 BIGFOOT when I get the Kenda Executioners on it. I hopefully will be doing some riding with some of you guys south of the Mason-Dixon later this year.

[srg121]

A corvette may be a great car to some but not if you want a Cadillac

A Lincoln may be a great car to some but not if you want a Mustang

A dodge Viper may be a great car to some but not if you want a 300M

My point here is you are comparing two different types of machines and it would be more of an opinion based of preference or what that person uses his AATV for

If you want to fit lots of passengers and carry heavy loads to a cottage I would suggest an 8x8 and from what I see only the Argo still makes it. You may say this is the Cadillac /Lincoln type choice

If you want a sporty 6x6 for recreation use and holds few passengers I am sure allot would say Max or get an old Attex. You may say this is the Mustang, Camaro type choice.

If you got the funds buy one of each.

I do not see what the big deal is about the T-20 and the claim it is all wheel drive. They all are all wheel drive or they would not go straight when they swim. The Argo I have seams to be fairy posy contrary to the claims made on this T-20 loving website. The Argo that I have seems to have a very strong 2speed+ reverse transmission. The T-20 is a one speed

if the max is the mustang i guess the hustler is the corvette!!!! looks,t-20 and 4 passenger.best of all worlds!!