Help my Mudd-Ox sunk!

[mudbug3]

Kmac

Giving a grade to all of the things that you experienced since owning a Mudd-Ox was exellent! A grading system like this will be quite helpful for those people who have been thinking about buying a Mudd-Ox. Matt was very late in shipping the parts that he originally promised me, but, I eventually got all of the parts that he promised me, just like he promised them.

If you're in a really bad spot with tracks and you find it extremely hard to change directions, this is a trick that you might want to try:

Pull up and then back up while making a very slight direction change ,and in the way that you want to go. As you pull up make a very slight direction change again. Continue repeating this process as you drive forward and backwards. By doing this I have been able to make the Mudd-Ox that I used to own turn around in extremely tight places. This is where a Hydrostatic machine shines.

[LarryW]

Good read! Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[azz7772]

thanx for the review that was a good read.

[kmac]

Adaptability and performance: B+

Adaptability and performance: B+
I am sure with no kit on the thing will float, but the floats that I put on are a God send. But as some of you have indicated, there is a draw back. On our first outing, we got stuck in little muddy hole -- too deep to get traction, and too muddy to use the outboard. I had to use what little off-roading skills I had to get out. But essentially we had to back up out of the hole. The floats, hampered us, as at one particular time we managed to get to edge of the hole, but the ground was too high and the floats where butting against the edge of the hole and this prevented us from gaining traction and climbing out. The floats were ahead of the tracks so that would hit ground first. We chose to back up because the floats were behind the tracks at the back of the ox, so the tracks would hit solid ground first. So we might adjust it. However, there is an advantage to having the longer floats at the front. I guess when I finally get the front float from Matt it shouldn’t matter, but when we hit the edge of a pool of water with a steep angle, the ox plunged down into the water and started to take on water, but then it popped back up. But again we had a lot of weight: we had the tracks, the outboard, two 220 pound hulking males, a full tank of fuel for the ox, a 5 gallon jerry can with diesel fuel, a full 5 gallon gasoline tank for the outboard, and the aluminium rails. So when we get the front floats, hopefully we can push the sides float back..but we might have a problem with the front float hitting the water.
But we were both skittish, and I guess that will change as we gain more experience with the Ox.

I couldn’t help think how the hydratrek would have performed. Because while we were stuck in the muddy water, I though that using the propellers and the tracks of the hydratrek would mean we would be out in a jiffy. But for now -- and I am saying this having not ever using the Adair tracks -- I have to say the rubber tracks seem to perform really well..No matter how awful the water was or how soft the ground was, they seem to get us out and moving (well…eventually when we fell into the hole). But it was the tracks that were moving us. So cannot use tracks that cannot swim. Plus turning the Ox in mud or sand with the tracks was not a problem. I am not going to use them on hard surfaces, so right now it doesn’t matter if they can turn well on these surfaces or not.

Also the float has opened the door for the use of larger outboards. I am considering going for a 25 hp high thrust motor, or try to do a little more homework on the yamaha jet drive outboards. But anything that can handle the rough stuff and can be operated from the cab is on the list.

So that’s it. I have a few stuff waiting to be delivered. The delay has worked out for me, as I actually get to test things and see what works, and I’ve been able to rethink the whole idea of using the paltry 9.9 hp. I guess this is where the Mudd-ox seems ok. With the floats, I can throw on a big outboard and make a splash.

[kmac]

Would I recommend it or buy another one?
I feel that because I know more about the ox, all I need to do is to order the basics and get the accessories elsewhere. I feel that (although I am not sure), that is the best way to get everything when you need it. So if it works well, I am inclined to look into getting another one (I might bite my tongue later). But it is early days, and it has gone from looking like a glorified Lego toy to a real machine.

[kmac]

Ease of use and repairs: A (so far anyway)

All I can say is that it is a fairly easy machine to fiddle around with. I do not know anything about automotive electronics, so I feel that is the only thing I can’t fix. Because I didn’t receive everything (ox and accessories) at the same time, I was forced to fit them to the Ox myself, and I was surprised how easy it was to do this. Although the first track took a day to put on, we managed to get the second one on in 40 mins. So this has given me confidence that I can be in a remote location and fix most things for the Ox (this feeling might change though). I needed an alternator, I called Matt’s supplier and got one sent. I needed heat shield and washers for the injectors, I got those ordered and sent. I need a solenoid, and those I can pick up on the internet. I needed master links for the chain and I got those in Jamaica.
The winch died on both machines, and I realized that there was a flaw with the type of motor used in the winch, so I got a warn winch instead and it bolted right on. With the floats on I had to change how the canopy top was fitted and that was no problem. I didn’t need any instructions to fit it either.
So ease of repairs and use in a non-US and have to make due with what is avaible I have to give it high commendations. My automotive electrician pointed out that the starter is used in a Camry. He replaced my alternator with an alternator from a corolla, until the new one came. He took out the solenoid and should us how to shout off the engine, without it.I don’t know about the bearings, the hydrostatic system etc. If those give any headaches, I might have to revise my grade.

[kmac]

The manufacturer; Overall customer service: C -

The manufacturer
Overall customer service: C -
I agree with some of you; what Matt does and how he does it have to change. I think leaving customers hanging for long periods and have to wait for ages isn't the greatest thing. But I come from a poor country where businessmen lack any conceivable business acumen, much less ethics. I can't say much about the long wait for the Ox except that I am still not convinced that the wait needed to be that long. I've paid for vehicles in my time in the UK and had to wait close to six months for it to be delivered and there were some delays. I think the solution to this is let people know that there will be some lead time, unless it is in stock, but if you have specific requests, it will take some time. But I’ve had stuff shipped sans what was paid for and I have been told that things are coming or on their way but they can’t seem to get there. I feel if Matt gives realistic time lines, and try to stick to them no matter what, most folks won’t say much. Also, if he says two weeks, all he needs to do is to just put it in an electronic calendar (i mean, he has Jessie to help), so that it pops up so he can contact us and let know that he will miss the scheduled time and will need more time. I am not saying that will ease the frustration but at least we don't have to call until we are sick, just to get through or have things arrive piecemeal without knowing until we get them.
And I must say no matter how many times I call his office phone, if Jessie answers, I never get through to Matt. Never!
Matt has some way to go with the customer service thing, but he needs and I hope he does realize he has a good product, at an excellent price point. If ARGO starts producing a small diesel similar to the OX, then things might get a little interesting. But he can be miles ahead of the game if he just gets this right. But you cannot get a diesel ATV for the price of an OX. So good customer service (it doesn’t have to great just good) will mean repeat customers and recommendations to others.
So outside of a crisis customer service this grade is most definitely a C -. I shied away from a D, E or F (fail) because he will eventually answer, and if I bug him enough times and he will respond. As I said I am working with a scale of pretty poor businesses, and if you want to find out what F looks like just google these guys (Cyclone 7 x 16 White | | Enclosed Trailers For LessEnclosed Trailers For Less) and search for problems.

[kmac]

The Manufacturer: Business savvy, crisis and demeanour: A-

The Manufacturer
Business savvy, crisis and demeanour: A-

Matt is something else. I doubt I’ve ever met a businessman like him in my life (and I doubt I would want to again). I am hot and cold towards Matt, because I cannot figure out for the life of me why there are all these lengthy delay etc. My philosophy is just do it.. especially if you have someone waiting on you, just put them in a queue. I have tons to do, and I have to do that, and eventually I usually get to them, then I just do everything and just do what is required or need and get them out of my hair.
I just don’t understand why someone would want anyone calling them 24 x 7s and bugging them. I know I would hate to have me bugging me. But fair enough, he seems either to have the patience or have too much to do to really let it bother him.

But, he has never been rude to me on the phone and he has always been polite, regardless of how upset I was. Since my dilemma, getting in touch with him isn’t really a problem, and to be honest he called and coached me through saving the engine of the Ox and getting it going again. A few of you have mentioned that he’s done this, and if in your very desperate hour of need he can do this then I must say he deserves a decent grade for that. I don’t know if this was as a result of posting, but within two days I had the ox up and running again. I can only figure if I was in the US, getting some of those parts from him would be easier because I would just drive to his shop and pick them up and wouldn’t bother with calling him.
I gave him an A- because it took a crisis for me to hear from him but he provided help over the weekend when it happened and especially when it was needed.

[kmac]

I think this is possibly my last series of posting on this thread. I want to say thank you to all of you have contributed to this post, and have sent me the PMs, they have helped immensely. Special thanks to mudbug3, noel and a few others. After loosing a month of fieldwork (plus the one and half year’s wait), we finally had the chance to test my second ox, and boy was that an experience and half! We are quickly learning the pros and cons of the OX, and I plan to go for an extensive testing of its capability out in marsh on Wednesday. So if you see a post then you will know that i made it back.

So for anyone else, here is my experience with the manufacturer and the Ox. I’ll try to add some grades and I am going to be very honest. Although I have some items outstanding with Matt, I think I can do this now.

[azz7772]

Thank You Buzz. It is nice to hear somone talk about the good. With everything in life people like to focus on the bad and not the good. Just watch the news. I really enjoy AATV's and have been to and supported the rides in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Indiana for years. I go to these rides and make myself available for people to ask questions, give feedback on what they like and what they would like to see changed. I wish more company owners made themselves available to the public to hear what customers like, what they are looking for, items they would like changed. I own alot of the vintage six wheelers and will have a museum section at my factory to display them and show everyone the history of the machines. I set off in 2005 to bring new life to our sport and build a heavy duty machine that is very capable for recreation and commercial users alike. This has been a very large undertaking and takes alot of time to develop and improve the machines, put qualified people on the phones to answer questions about the Mudd-Ox and any other vintage AATV that they may need a special part made for or need help on where to find what they need to get their old machine going. This somtimes takes up the full day. I am sorry if it has been hard for some people to get a hold of me but please note I am working on improving our customer service and have new systems in place to help customers get the information and parts they may need. I am also working on putting a service manual section into the operators manual to help customers with technical questions and service. I will also have an online order form on the Mudd-Ox web site so customers can access it 24 hours a day. As for the new lower tub comment by WFO, the current Mudd-Ox works when the load limits are followed. I am building the new model to offer customers more floatation and higher load limits in the water. It is just like a pick up truck; you can buy a regular duty half ton 1500, or you can buy a heavy duty one ton 3500 model truck. There is not a product made that will perform perfect under all situations and uses.

Regards,

Matt

Matt have you come up with a price for the HD version and will you post a couple vids on the forum? I for one am staying neutral in this Ford,Chevy,Dodge type of arguing and am very curious about the HD model and how much different it will be on the trails. Are you driving a prototype yet?

[Matt O.]

Come on guys...Listen, I have no issues with my machines because I know exactly what they are. They have a certain footprint, and a certain weight/dimension. Pay attention to your balance and load, no different than a boat. A lot of us use the machines for more than just riding around for the hell of it, seeing what kind of crazy positions we can get into. When towing and maneuvering, they're awesome. When kept light in the water, they perform just fine. They're not boats, and anyone that tries to use one as such is asking for trouble in my opinion. This goes with all brands. The mudd-ox is fine in the water as long as you don't do stupid things. If you want extreme water capability, well you're going to have to make some modifications. No different than beefing up the bottom of your jetboat if you're concerned about ripping it open. It's very easy to lighten it up a bit and make it more stable in the water if you're so inclined. And for the record, Matt has been very helpful with me. It did take a while to ultimately get the machines, but I have no complaints. In fact, they're great. Sure, there might be smaller/lighter machines better suited for a terrain park, but that just seems like it would be my last priority. I don't believe for a second that the factory wouldn't try to help resolve and improve each machine it builds along the way. At least someone is getting out there and doing it....trying to develop and improve a machine. I know it's entirely too easy to just complain and attempt to bring someone down. Yeah, Google works, and you know most people can see right through the garbage insults too. Anyone one of us has the right to go build a better machine if you have all the answers. A forum full of experts surely wouldn't balk at spending the money necessary to do so, right? I tell you what, the best machine isn't the one that can enter the water at the steepest angle....really? What a horrible argument.

Thank You Buzz. It is nice to hear somone talk about the good. With everything in life people like to focus on the bad and not the good. Just watch the news. I really enjoy AATV's and have been to and supported the rides in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Indiana for years. I go to these rides and make myself available for people to ask questions, give feedback on what they like and what they would like to see changed. I wish more company owners made themselves available to the public to hear what customers like, what they are looking for, items they would like changed. I own alot of the vintage six wheelers and will have a museum section at my factory to display them and show everyone the history of the machines. I set off in 2005 to bring new life to our sport and build a heavy duty machine that is very capable for recreation and commercial users alike. This has been a very large undertaking and takes alot of time to develop and improve the machines, put qualified people on the phones to answer questions about the Mudd-Ox and any other vintage AATV that they may need a special part made for or need help on where to find what they need to get their old machine going. This somtimes takes up the full day. I am sorry if it has been hard for some people to get a hold of me but please note I am working on improving our customer service and have new systems in place to help customers get the information and parts they may need. I am also working on putting a service manual section into the operators manual to help customers with technical questions and service. I will also have an online order form on the Mudd-Ox web site so customers can access it 24 hours a day. As for the new lower tub comment by WFO, the current Mudd-Ox works when the load limits are followed. I am building the new model to offer customers more floatation and higher load limits in the water. It is just like a pick up truck; you can buy a regular duty half ton 1500, or you can buy a heavy duty one ton 3500 model truck. There is not a product made that will perform perfect under all situations and uses.

Regards,

Matt

[PA Jeep]

Muddbug3
I can only offer my experience with OX. (It’s been great. BTW) Seems a bit narrow in the old thought processor to think this topic is only popular because those that view it agree or disagree with anything anyone has said in any of the posts. I would rather chalk the traffic up to fun read'n:0

[mudbug3]

Well said Buzz. My diesel Ox has been great and so has the the service and support from Mudd Ox.

If every previous Mudd-Ox owner , including myself , had the exact same experience as you've had with your Mudd-Ox and in dealing with Matt Oxender ,then this forum post would,nt be over 4,700 vewings long by now? When I owned a Mudd-Ox I did'nt receive an owners manual with it , but kept being promised one, so I just drove it in the same places that I took my Max IV 6x6 and Argo 6x6 now to compare its performance. The forum members that rode with me can attest that I never once used my Mudd-Ox in a careless way that would cause damage to the machine.

[PA Jeep]

Well said Buzz. My diesel Ox has been great and so has the the service and support from Mudd Ox.

[amphibious drew]

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