2006 Argo Avenger with T20

[spookum]

hi mike! i have a source for 10:1 taper adapter for using a snow mobile clutch on a straight keyed shaft. Please consider this, as every comet clutch set up is 2:1 starting and 1:1 final drive, vs a snow moblie clutch 4:1 starting and a .76:1 over drive!!! it is like having low range on tap, all the time!!! If your going to spend the money on new clutches... get ones that give a HUGE mechanical advantage! let me know if i can help... having "almost low range" in that argo with the T-20 will be killer!! i can even help you "tune it" so it work for you.

Also, google search "snap idle automatic chain adjusters" That is the best bang for your buck! if you have to, i know Msfia used the on the T-20 to jack shaft in a hustler... he just had to put a piece of steel out to keep them from sliping off on the transmission side....

[Mike]

Just another small update. I received the clutches Friday so today I slid them on to make sure everything would fit. It looks like the Invance clutch was just what I needed. Due to the disc brake mounts on the existing T20 output shafts I couldn't get it to sit exactly where it should be but it was good enough for mockup. I asked Roy at Quality Drive to provide me with a belt that was 13.75" long (center to center). He sent me exactly what I needed to get the motor to sit in the right location (Comet Industries belt #302663 0904 267). That made my job easy.



The only outstanding issue with the motor/trans mount that needs to be addressed before I finish weld everything was the belt clearance. In my last post I mentioned raising the motor up so I mocked it up 1.5" higher just to see what that would do. Without raising the motor, the belt still clears the chain adjuster but only by 3/4" or so. I think it would oscillate enough when the clutches start/stop that it would hit the adjuster. Looking today, I am pretty sure I could just rework the factory adjuster and have it work but I think I will take the easy way out and just raise the motor. In the grand scheme of things it's not a bid deal.

These photos are with the motor raised to where I think it needs to be.

[lgfusafa]

Mike, congrats on the new machine. I'll echo your sentiments about Ken. I've been dealing with him now for several years and he is absolutely a class act. I'd encourage anyone interested in an Argo to get in touch with him. He kept my '96 Vanguard running like a top up until I upgraded last year. Glad you had such a good experience, and enjoy the Argo!

[Mike]

Spent a few hours today working on the motor/transmission mount and the T20 itself. I double checked the transmission mount to make sure everything was square and then I tack welded the final gussets in place. This past week I had pulled the T20 apart and ordered all of the parts I needed. I received my seal kit from Recreatives Industries this week as well as output and input shaft bearings. I also sent my bands off to get them relined.

I hit a little snag this week with the T20 output shafts. My T20 is out of an Attex and it has the disc brake adapters on the output shaft sprockets. I assumed that they were just pressed on but after cleaning off the grease and dirt off I realized that they were welded on the output shafts. So most of my time today was spent on the lathe and in the press trying to get the sprockets and brake adapters off of the T20 output shaft sprockets. Here are the two shafts where you can see the brake adapters welded on:


I started with the output shaft that doesn't have the hole for the input shaft in it. I machined the weld down as closely as I felt comfortable getting to the output shaft itself. Then I put in in the press and... nothing. Back to the lathe I went. This time I used a cutoff tool on the brake adapter while keeping a close eye on the depth of the cut so I didn't cut into the output shaft. Back to the press again and... nothing. Then I used liberal amounts of heat while pressing it off and... nothing. It actually started bending the sprocket around the brake adapter so I stopped and will let it cool. Obviously I need to machine the weld down a little more so I'll try that again tomorrow.


Since that shaft was cooling I moved to the shaft with the input shaft through the middle. I machined the weld off in the lathe and then was able to press the adapter off fairly easily. The sprocket still didn't come off though. I called it a night and will try again tomorrow.

[lewis]

Looks great Mike! Keep up the great work and it will as far as I know, be the first.

[thebuggyman1]

Mike, I was in the middle of a conversation at Ashtabula last year about how rare those "disc brake" sprockets are getting. I'm sure there are other members that would appreciate the opportunity to trade you for standard output shafts.......in case the second one is still intact.
I threw away a couple with bad sprockets, and was told that replacing the sprockets was much easier than making the whole part from scratch.

[Mike]

No progress today but I did receive some parts from Apache Gear, Inc.


Whipper took my intermediate shafts and extended the splines on them for me. This will allow me to slide the intermediate shaft sprockets further outboard to line up with the T20 output sprockets. If it weren't for the color of the old metal vs the machined metal, you wouldn't even be able to tell where he did the machine work.


He also got me the output sprockets that I needed for my T20. I went with #60 sprockets so that I could keep the #60 intermediate shaft sprocket that comes stock on the Avenger. initially I was going to go with a different size intermediate shaft sprocket to get the gearing I was after but while I was changing the T20 sprockets anyway, I just used those to regear. That saved me from purchasing additional sprockets. If I'm off on my calculations I can always swap out the intermediate shaft sprockets for smaller ones to gear down even further.

[Mike]

I now have the T20 mount ready for paint. I still have to build the motor mount that sits on top of this but that's the easy one.


Thanks to Transmission Crafters in Albany Georgia, I now have relined T20 bands:


I set the new 19 tooth #60 sprocket that I am going to be using on the T20 case. It's funny that I spent some time before ordering the #60 sprockets to make sure that they weren't too thick to where they would push the chain against the case. Well, after laying the sprocket on the case, it is so large (diameter) that the chain won't even be next to the case. Problem solved


I have to change the T20 from the channel style to the popsicle style in order to fit the linkage to the laterals between the Argo frame. In doing so, I also have to lengthen the popsicle sticks by about 2" or so. I mounted one half of the case on the mount to measure just how long I need to make the popsicle sticks.


My next step is to put the T20 case halves on the milling machine to drill out for the dowel pins. I have to do that before I put the T20 back together and I have to have the T20 back together before I can finish the motor mount. Hopefully I can work on it some more this weekend.

[mudbug3]

Mike


Please make sure to document all of the dimensions of your Argo ' T-20 engine mount ' from front, side to side, height, and length for other forum members that have thought about doing this very same T-20 conversion. Great work so far.

[Mike]

I spent most of the couple of hours that I had free today machining parts. I made some spacers to allow me to press the new T20 sprockets onto the T20 output shafts to exactly the right place. I also placed the shafts in the freezer tonight so they will be ready to press on. I cut new grooves in the four T20 plungers while I had them out to upgrade them from the single oring to the double oring style.



I also managed to get one half of the T20 case secured to the milling machine's table. It is ready for me to drill out the boss for the dowel pin pivot. I was busy for several hours but it doesn't feel like I got much done today.

[lewis]

I can't wait to see this Avenger!

[Mike]

Tonight, I installed the intermediate shafts back in the Argo. The splines have been extended to allow me to slide the sprockets further towards the outside of the Argo. This was needed to line up with the T20 output shaft sprockets since the T20 is wider than the stock Avenger transmission.

Sprocket slid all the way towards the transmission


Sprocket slid all the way towards the outside of the Avenger


Here are a couple of older photo where you can almost make out the length of the original splines for comparison


I also placed orders for lots of small parts I needed and picked up some DOM tubing to make the laterals and the linkage.

[jpswift1]

Looks great, Mike! That DOM tubing is expensive stuff, and the more you need, it seems to REALLY add up quickly. I can't believe how fast this project is coming along.

[Mike]

Updating this thread is helping to keep me moving forward. I feel like I made some decent progress today.

I machined the hole in the T20 case halves for a press fit to allow me to press in 3/8" dowel pin / pivot point for the new popsicle stick style levers. I started with a 1/8" bit and drilled completely through the case with it.


Then I went to an undersized drill bit and finished the hole out with a slightly undersized reamer as well. With the large hole, I only drilled to the bottom of the boss. I have to order some longer dowel pins, otherwise I would have gone ahead and pressed them in.


After I got the holes machined in the T20 case, that allowed me to mock up the new lever that I made. I cut out this lever just for mock up. The bottom of the lever was extended about 2" compared to the stock ones to allow me to position the linkage that will go to the laterals right below the T20 mount. In these photos, I am using heim joints instead of eye bolts in the T20 plungers so they throw the lever at a slight angle. Also, the dowel pin is just sitting in the hole. Both of those will be changed but this was mainly to make sure the lever was extended to the right position. Now that I know it is, I will machine out two more levers and have them hardened.


Finally, I started making the motor mount that will sit on top of the existing transmission mount that I've already finished. In these photos I have most of it tacked together. As you can see, the bottom mount is slotted to allow this top motor mount to slide forwards and backwards for proper belt tension. Once I weld this up, a final plate will be welded to the top. That plate will be offset towards the clutch side of the motor for proper belt alignment. The top plate will also have slots machined in it to allow the motor to be slid from left to right for fine tuning of the belt alignment. Depending on how far the plate has to be offset I may end up having to add a "leg" under it to support the weight of the motor. I won't know for sure until I get the T20 back together and in the mount so I can line up the clutches and mark the holes needed for the motor mount.

This photo shows the motor mount slid all the way forward.


This photo shows the motor mount slid all the way to the rear.

[Mike]

I didn't get but an hour or so tonight to work on the Argo but I did manage to get a couple of small things done.

I started by bending the 7/8" DOM tubing for the laterals. I am going to try out some horizontal bars this time to see how I like them. I am probably going to try out a thumb throttle too. For now I made both ends of the handlebars longer than needed. I will cut them down when I get further along.


I will also probably weld them at a slight angle to match the stock Avenger bars as they are pretty comfortable.


I scratched my head for a while on different solutions for mounting the T20 linkage to the laterals. Since the T20 moves up to tighten the output shaft chains, I needed a way to move the linkage mounting point up with it as well. Tonight I welded a tab on a wide two-piece collar and I think that is going to work well.