2006 Argo Avenger with T20

[Mike]

I now have the T20 mount ready for paint. I still have to build the motor mount that sits on top of this but that's the easy one.


Thanks to Transmission Crafters in Albany Georgia, I now have relined T20 bands:


I set the new 19 tooth #60 sprocket that I am going to be using on the T20 case. It's funny that I spent some time before ordering the #60 sprockets to make sure that they weren't too thick to where they would push the chain against the case. Well, after laying the sprocket on the case, it is so large (diameter) that the chain won't even be next to the case. Problem solved


I have to change the T20 from the channel style to the popsicle style in order to fit the linkage to the laterals between the Argo frame. In doing so, I also have to lengthen the popsicle sticks by about 2" or so. I mounted one half of the case on the mount to measure just how long I need to make the popsicle sticks.


My next step is to put the T20 case halves on the milling machine to drill out for the dowel pins. I have to do that before I put the T20 back together and I have to have the T20 back together before I can finish the motor mount. Hopefully I can work on it some more this weekend.

[Mike]

No progress today but I did receive some parts from Apache Gear, Inc.


Whipper took my intermediate shafts and extended the splines on them for me. This will allow me to slide the intermediate shaft sprockets further outboard to line up with the T20 output sprockets. If it weren't for the color of the old metal vs the machined metal, you wouldn't even be able to tell where he did the machine work.


He also got me the output sprockets that I needed for my T20. I went with #60 sprockets so that I could keep the #60 intermediate shaft sprocket that comes stock on the Avenger. initially I was going to go with a different size intermediate shaft sprocket to get the gearing I was after but while I was changing the T20 sprockets anyway, I just used those to regear. That saved me from purchasing additional sprockets. If I'm off on my calculations I can always swap out the intermediate shaft sprockets for smaller ones to gear down even further.

[thebuggyman1]

Mike, I was in the middle of a conversation at Ashtabula last year about how rare those "disc brake" sprockets are getting. I'm sure there are other members that would appreciate the opportunity to trade you for standard output shafts.......in case the second one is still intact.
I threw away a couple with bad sprockets, and was told that replacing the sprockets was much easier than making the whole part from scratch.

[lewis]

Looks great Mike! Keep up the great work and it will as far as I know, be the first.

[Mike]

Spent a few hours today working on the motor/transmission mount and the T20 itself. I double checked the transmission mount to make sure everything was square and then I tack welded the final gussets in place. This past week I had pulled the T20 apart and ordered all of the parts I needed. I received my seal kit from Recreatives Industries this week as well as output and input shaft bearings. I also sent my bands off to get them relined.

I hit a little snag this week with the T20 output shafts. My T20 is out of an Attex and it has the disc brake adapters on the output shaft sprockets. I assumed that they were just pressed on but after cleaning off the grease and dirt off I realized that they were welded on the output shafts. So most of my time today was spent on the lathe and in the press trying to get the sprockets and brake adapters off of the T20 output shaft sprockets. Here are the two shafts where you can see the brake adapters welded on:


I started with the output shaft that doesn't have the hole for the input shaft in it. I machined the weld down as closely as I felt comfortable getting to the output shaft itself. Then I put in in the press and... nothing. Back to the lathe I went. This time I used a cutoff tool on the brake adapter while keeping a close eye on the depth of the cut so I didn't cut into the output shaft. Back to the press again and... nothing. Then I used liberal amounts of heat while pressing it off and... nothing. It actually started bending the sprocket around the brake adapter so I stopped and will let it cool. Obviously I need to machine the weld down a little more so I'll try that again tomorrow.


Since that shaft was cooling I moved to the shaft with the input shaft through the middle. I machined the weld off in the lathe and then was able to press the adapter off fairly easily. The sprocket still didn't come off though. I called it a night and will try again tomorrow.

[lgfusafa]

Mike, congrats on the new machine. I'll echo your sentiments about Ken. I've been dealing with him now for several years and he is absolutely a class act. I'd encourage anyone interested in an Argo to get in touch with him. He kept my '96 Vanguard running like a top up until I upgraded last year. Glad you had such a good experience, and enjoy the Argo!

[Mike]

Just another small update. I received the clutches Friday so today I slid them on to make sure everything would fit. It looks like the Invance clutch was just what I needed. Due to the disc brake mounts on the existing T20 output shafts I couldn't get it to sit exactly where it should be but it was good enough for mockup. I asked Roy at Quality Drive to provide me with a belt that was 13.75" long (center to center). He sent me exactly what I needed to get the motor to sit in the right location (Comet Industries belt #302663 0904 267). That made my job easy.



The only outstanding issue with the motor/trans mount that needs to be addressed before I finish weld everything was the belt clearance. In my last post I mentioned raising the motor up so I mocked it up 1.5" higher just to see what that would do. Without raising the motor, the belt still clears the chain adjuster but only by 3/4" or so. I think it would oscillate enough when the clutches start/stop that it would hit the adjuster. Looking today, I am pretty sure I could just rework the factory adjuster and have it work but I think I will take the easy way out and just raise the motor. In the grand scheme of things it's not a bid deal.

These photos are with the motor raised to where I think it needs to be.

[spookum]

hi mike! i have a source for 10:1 taper adapter for using a snow mobile clutch on a straight keyed shaft. Please consider this, as every comet clutch set up is 2:1 starting and 1:1 final drive, vs a snow moblie clutch 4:1 starting and a .76:1 over drive!!! it is like having low range on tap, all the time!!! If your going to spend the money on new clutches... get ones that give a HUGE mechanical advantage! let me know if i can help... having "almost low range" in that argo with the T-20 will be killer!! i can even help you "tune it" so it work for you.

Also, google search "snap idle automatic chain adjusters" That is the best bang for your buck! if you have to, i know Msfia used the on the T-20 to jack shaft in a hustler... he just had to put a piece of steel out to keep them from sliping off on the transmission side....

[MAX IV Mark]

Mark # 50 is 1/2" pitch and #60 is 3/4" pitch chain and they don't use same width rollers! Mike has #60 chain pictured. #60 has 1/2" wide roller on id and .695 oeverall width od, #50 has .390 wide Id & ..548 od on roller links. Connector link or total chain width and pitch lenght is diffrent also. 60 is also available in 60H and has heavier side links for more strenght.

Not sure if my reference material was wrong, but 50 is 5/8" pitch I believe not 1/2"
Motorcycle Primary and Secondary Drive Chains Explained

[maicolover]

Mark # 50 is 1/2" pitch and #60 is 3/4" pitch chain and they don't use same width rollers! Mike has #60 chain pictured. #60 has 1/2" wide roller on id and .695 oeverall width od, #50 has .390 wide Id & ..548 od on roller links. Connector link or total chain width and pitch lenght is diffrent also. 60 is also available in 60H and has heavier side links for more strenght.

[Mike]

Mike,
That looks like a 80 chain and not a 60 to me. The 50 and 60 both have the same roller width of 3/8". But an 80 will fit also, Kevin has one set up on one of his projects I was looking at last time I was at RI.

MAX IV Mark

I think the picture is misleading since I was pushing the chain as far over as I could. This chain came off my Avenger and the #60 sprockets it has. I think the #60 chain has a width of 1/2" as well. ...Off to Google just to double check.

Edit: I found some specs on the #60 and it does have 1/2" roller width. Knowing that Kevin got the #80 to fit is good information though. I shouldn't have any problems with the #60 that I ordered.

[MAX IV Mark]

Here I am doing an eyeball test to see if #60 chain and sprocket will be even close to fitting on the T20 output shaft without rubbing the case:

Mike,
That looks like a 80 chain and not a 60 to me. The 50 and 60 both have the same roller width of 3/8". But an 80 will fit also, Kevin has one set up on one of his projects I was looking at last time I was at RI.

MAX IV Mark

[Mike]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not too concerned about the adjuster. It might not even be an issue as it could clear the belt. I'll just have to wait until I get the clutches in and see where things fall. The other thing I was thinking about was to just rework the mount for the adjuster a little so that it doesn't stick up as high. I'll try to get some better photos when the clutches come in.

[lewis]

That's ok Jim, i get it spelled that way a lot.

Never had any trouble with the chain adjuster after i went to the new style. They are simple enough to remove. If you could make the old style(Conquest) work in this location that would solve the issue. They are low profile and may even work in the slots where the current Avenger ones are/were.

[ARGOJIM]

Mike you could remove the adjusters if needed. They were a good idea we all wanted that doesn't really work, as the chains seem to take forever to stretch enough to use the adjuster and just cause a annoying slapping chain noise. You could ask Lewis his thoughts on them I know he has some hours on his first Avenger.