2006 Argo Avenger with T20

[Mike]

I got the flu last weekend so progress came to a halt. Today I was able to do some work though so I started tacking the mount together. Everything fit great and the T20 is located right where I wanted it. The only issue I have is with my plan for the laterals. Once I got everything in place, it looks like there is a simpler way to address the laterals. I think I will rework the T20 side plates to raise the T20 up another inch or so. Then I will just take the laterals directly under the T20, above the top of the mount. Since the transmission moves up to tighten the chains I will also have to be careful that the laterals don't hit so I may notch out the T20 mount or make it where the laterals are adjustable (up and down) to account for that. Still undecided but at least I made some progress today:

[yogi1644]

mike im keeping up w/ this build keep it comming,i have a conquest and a t-20 waiting thanks

[Mike]

I have most of the pieces for the motor / transmission mount cut out and ready to weld. I made a few revisions since the last time I posted. I hope to tack some of them in place this weekend and test fit where I located the T20 to make sure it will work.

[spookum]

Here is some double fifty Tsubaki chain. I have the "two sold" sitting in my shed awaiting spring. You can get it, if you pay attention on ebay, for about 100 bucks. This is only 75

Tsubaki 50 2 Double Strand Roller Chain 10 ft Foot Riveted New | eBay

[mightymaxIV]

I have been using tsubaki 530 Sigma chain in place of standard #50 in extreme use areas.(jackshaft down in buffalo trucks and people with teenage kids). Standard RC 50 is rated at 6600#. I remember Diamond rating their chain at somewhere arround 8500# nearly that of RC60. The sigma is 10200#. yes its expensive but very long life and 1/2 the weight of 50-2. It will also fit on the stock output sprockets of the t-20 if it has the MAX length output shafts.

This is very good information to know and I appreciate you posting this. I am always having problems with chain stretch on the T-20 out put shafts.

[msafi65]

I have been using tsubaki 530 Sigma chain in place of standard #50 in extreme use areas.(jackshaft down in buffalo trucks and people with teenage kids). Standard RC 50 is rated at 6600#. I remember Diamond rating their chain at somewhere arround 8500# nearly that of RC60. The sigma is 10200#. yes its expensive but very long life and 1/2 the weight of 50-2. It will also fit on the stock output sprockets of the t-20 if it has the MAX length output shafts.

[jpswift1]

Double 50 would be good, but I don't think the T-20 output shafts would be wide enough to accomodate a double 50 sprocket. A 60 sprocket would easily fit on the T-20 output shafts though......heck I've even seen an 80 sprocket and chain on one.

[mightymaxIV]

That's a creative solution that I wouldn't have thought of. I think I will still extend the splines just to keep the load centered on the sprocket but that is a great idea. Another thing I've been mulling over is the #50 sprocket on the T20. The rest of the drivetrain is either #60 or double 50. It seems wrong to use #50 for the main drive chain delivering power to the rest of the machine.

I would strongly consider a double 50 chain.

[Mike]

That's a creative solution that I wouldn't have thought of. I think I will still extend the splines just to keep the load centered on the sprocket but that is a great idea. Another thing I've been mulling over is the #50 sprocket on the T20. The rest of the drivetrain is either #60 or double 50. It seems wrong to use #50 for the main drive chain delivering power to the rest of the machine.

[msafi65]

If you want to use the stock Argo jackshafts a type B 1.250 bore sprocket with a splined hub welded to the offset side will give you almost 1.25 inches movement on the sprockets. May be able to get away without any machine work???

[Mike]

Thanks for the replies. I won't reply specifically to everyone but I am reading/listening to everything posted. The T20 mount and torque is something that I was and still am concerned about. I first planned on using a brace to another point on the frame similar to the older Max IVs but then I saw Whipper's lock-down plate and stole his idea. If you look below the "U" channels for the T20, there are two more bolt holes. This will allow me to bolt up another plate with four holes to the outside of the mount locking the T20 in place. I'm still not against more bracing and will look into the additional holes.

msafi65, thanks for posting the gear ratios you are playing with. That let me verify some of my calculations.

I was speaking with hydromike and he brought up a good point that I failed to mention. In the spreadsheets I have neglected the gearing of the CVTs. I treated them as a constant because I am going to be using the same setup on the Argo as my Max IV so it was irrelevant to me but I want to point it out to anyone else that tries to use these numbers. I believe the Argo driven clutch is slightly larger than the standard Max and this would skew the numbers in the center two columns but what else skews them is the power robbed by the Argo transmission. So it's not as clear cut as it may seem. Just keep that in mind if anyone else uses these.

Finally, speaking with hydromike made me realize that I may have made a mistake with the CVTs that would effect the top speed calculations. I had assumed that the final gearing of the CVTs was 1:1 but I don't know if this is the case. Does anyone know if the stock Max CVTs are 1:1 final gearing? Again, in the end it isn't important as I am trying to copy the gearing of my Max IV but it would skew the top speed numbers in the spreadsheet.

Edit: OK, for the 780 clutch there are several variations but it seems like the general consensus for calculations is roughly 0.9:1 so the speeds for the T20 machines in the spreadsheet should be higher (divide them by 0.9). I'm not sure about the stock Argo clutch.

[msafi65]

Mike , Ive been looking at this conversion for several years and the mount system looks great. I would add at least two more mount bolts to the t-20. RI added some ears in 2008 that have made the trans stay put.
I have changed the gear ratio on several MAX IIs and Buffalo trucks. These machines get loaded heavy and worked hard and at low speed were hard on belts. The stock ratio from the T-20 to the axles in a buf trk is as follows
trans 15t to jackshaft 27t jackshaft to center axle21t to 30t = 2.57:1 ratio top speed w/23hp kohler about 20 mph??
most common conversion is
trans 15t to jackshaft 34t ( same as MAX IV)then jackshaft down to center axle 21t-30 = 3.235:1 ratio
I have one with a 37 tooth jackshaft with total reduction of 3.52:1. This vehicle with tracks will turn and climb with almost no throtle pressure. Top speed is 14 mph but most of our use is in bad swamp at less than 2mph. Belt life went up to a couple years.
My opinion is use the lower gearing as the Avenger is heaver than an empty buf trk. Add a load and steering at low speed will require a lot of throttle. Keep us posted and thanks for the site!

[mudbug3]

Mike

My Argo 6x6 Frontier has always ran really hot ,and this I assume is why your engine is water cooled in your argo avenger. Fabricating a two into one or a two into two exhaust will surely help some with the heat issues underneath your hood, but, with the motor sitting so low in the tub, and not enough hot air being able to escape fast enough around the motor, installing a hopped up motor will then add to your over heating issues. Because of so many things falling into the tub around the motor, I have now stopped trail riding with my hood off. The last time that I was out I removed my kick panel instead to see if this made much of a difference in my heat issues, and this made a big difference.

[mightymaxIV]

I like your math Mike; I am very impressed that you are able to calculate all the different ratios. Since your dealing with an engine that should have just a little more grunt then the stock Kohler I would go for the 15.45 to one final ratio with a top speed of 27.5 mph. probably as fast as you will ever want or need to go with that machine.
Since you’re dealing with an 8x8 and I might even consider taking it lower since you won't have the low gear on the tranny any more. I have never driven your Max but since you have so much stick time with an engine and a gear ratio so close to what you are already running in the Max it shouldn't be hard to figure out exactly what you are going to need.:

Another Calculation that must be considered is the weight of the tires. I believe the stock Rawhides on a 9" rim are only about 33 pounds each. Having seen the conditions you put that Max Through I would have to believe you are going to need the lower gears, maybe even lower than the ratios you have posted. I would consider something in the range of a 22 mph top speed. Between the engine and the gearing you should have what ever you need for about 90% of the situations that machine will ever see.

Pertaining to the split shifter-In my Argo HD the only time I could use it was on a tight trail with light mud, or in the water, if you tried to use in any mud it over stressed the the entire machine and took an lot of power that abused the rest of the drive train.

[jpswift1]

Mike, first of all, this is an extremely professional conversions ion and I foresee this being an extremely reliable machine because of all the thought and time and effort you're putting into it. I really like your design a lot and I just wanted to add in something for you to consider. Your T-20 cradle looks quite stout, but instead of using the studs on the T-20, I think it would prevent any possible "walking out" of the T-20 from the cradle (which happens on many Hustlers) by just drilling holes in the cradle and securing the T-20 with bolts (and Locktite to keep them from backing out) like on a Max IV. So basically the "U" cutouts for the T-20 mounts are replaced by holes. Also, maybe you could incorporate a provision for a third mounting point that attaches to top the T-20 on each side for extra durability when skid steering (or possibly counter-rotating) 8 wheels. I have some technical specs on the T-20 and gear ratios if you need them as well. Just let me know if there's anything I can do to help you out with this build and sorry if I mentioned something you've already covered......I've been doing so much lately, especially with 6 wheelers, everything seems to just run together. Great work, Mike......keep it up! I'm sure you'll have this monster on the trails in no time.