Escargo and Adair Tracks comparison

[rockrewls]

Reference throwing a track:
As long as you keep the 24" tire aired up properly it would be very difficult to walk out of them although on occasion I did have some issues in very soft mud with roots and tree limbs. The main thing is to keep the tires properly inflated and you should never have an problem losing a track with the more squared off tires.
Having said that if you ever did walk out of a track it's not a big deal to put them back on as long as you have an air pump with you to deflate and inflate the tires.

This is exactly why I wouldn't own a ground level track now, because argo tires don't stay inflated all the time and roots, trees, very soft mud, and side hills can de-rail them, and when your loaded and its cold in the middle of the night and your coming in from a long distance trouble with tracks is the last thing you need, for me at least!!

Rock

[jerseybigfoot]

Rough crowd tonight. This Springer is an ongoing project. Where it cannot go is still a question. It may be wide but I have 12" ground clarance under the tub. It is not a toy. The suspension system increases its mobility by following the terrain not fighting it. I may try the Adair Classics in the future as I have plenty of clearance.

[MAX IV Mark]

Wow Buzz, I think we should all leave the forum and let you answer all the questions because it seems that no matter what some else says or what their experience you aways seem to have a better answer.

Dude. Buzz is the man. He can continuously contradict himself without ever being wrong. I hope I can reach that type of enlightenment some day.

I respect your opinion.
Sometimes people tend to make excuses or blow smoke, which I've never felt is right.

Now that is funny

[amphibious drew]

Rough crowd tonight. This Springer is an ongoing project. Where it cannot go is still a question. It may be wide but I have 12" ground clarance under the tub. It is not a toy. The suspension system increases its mobility by following the terrain not fighting it. I may try the Adair Classics in the future as I have plenty of clearance.

Well Marc, you see your machine lacks low gear and is most likely useless without it. Additionally, without a triple limited slip differential, it is just old technology that hasn't been updated since the late 60's. Also, I don't know if we ever came to the conclusion that springers are worth it, but then you go and throw some recycled hdpe tracks on there. Everyone knows the cross binder material is way better here. And seriously doughnuts it the front yard is just not how these machines were designed to be driven. They need more challenging terrain than a rose garden. Oh wait. That is just envy being displayed. Obviously you built a great trail ready machine prior to the tracks. I rode next to you and it was awesome. Then you took it to the next level. Even I had doubts that a track would work on a springer, but you proved they would. And low gear, well it's just not needed on a t-20. They are much more efficient at putting the power at the wheels than any Argo design. Oh yeah, finally you choose a track with great consumer feedback from a company with an outstanding reputation. Some may not be impressed, but I feel like I just got to see a glimps of what the future in our hobby has to hold for us. If that doesn't make the side by side crowd drool, they don't have their eyes open.

[Rock Doctor]

I have been wondering what the weight of those were. Any tales from the North Woods with those tracks yet or are you still south RD?

I'm back now, but work has started interfering with my desire to play. Also, a torn rotator cuff is not helping things, lol. Not sure when I will get out riding.

RD

[thorn]

I'm back now, but work has started interfering with my desire to play. Also, a torn rotator cuff is not helping things, lol. Not sure when I will get out riding.

RD

Sorry to hear of the injury. Keep us posted when you get out.

[Buzz]

[QUOTE=MAX IV Mark;164627]Dude. Buzz is the man. He can continuously contradict himself without ever being wrong. I hope I can reach that type of enlightenment some day.


I hope you have success convincing people

[rockrewls]

[QUOTE=Buzz;164655]

Dude. Buzz is the man. He can continuously contradict himself without ever being wrong. I hope I can reach that type of enlightenment some day.

Hey Mark, I really don't think this is the place for personal attacks, Buzz spends a lot of time testing various track styles including Adair from what i've read, and he try's to give information based on his experiences, environment, and ride style.
He has various friends who have run different track types and they pass their info along as well.
Personally I want as much unbiased info as I can get, it seems to me that your not one to be unbiased judging from your comment!!
This forum shouldn't be as much about beating a brand drum as it should be about real life experiences good and bad in all conditions, environments and ride styles, only then can it truly be a well informed community.

Rock

[Buzz]

I'll admit I've called people out many times for beating to the drum of this website. I've apologized for making it personal. But the amount of claims that are made against escargo tracks....on this website....is outrageous. And it's all from people who #1 don't own escargo tracks and #2 aren't lucky enough to have had the opportunity to try them. #3 the bashing comes from customers who have bought tracks from Escargo's competitor...makes you wonder..between that and anonymous youtube comments, you really have to filter through the b.s. to get good information on tracks..which ones work best where, and if you even need them at all. Frequently there are videos of tracks where they're not even needed.

If you're happy with your tracks, I encourage you to express that. Just don't bash other track makers when you have never tried them. Don't believe everything you've been told. Some of us have tried lots of tracks and are willing to "help" others connect the dots to see if they need escargo tracks for their conditions. Damn, even a plastic track is over $4000 to your door + the cost of a u-channel ice cleat kit. You get my drift. It had better work and make your life easy.

If a different track had worked for me, I would no doubt be singing its praises instead. But Escargo is the one that does it for me. All I can say to those who have not had a chance to try the steel escargo track in it's current configuration......you don't know what you're missing. I don't make the track either. The guys in Timmins Ontario do. Call them up, they're not going to dirt-shoot adair tracks. They know that people make up their own mind. Even if it means spending money 2, 3, 4, or 5 times before they decide to buy the escargo tracks. But when you do, you'll be happy. My advice is don't believe everything you hear on this website from those who have never even tried the escargo track. It's the best. I'll say it everytime.

[foxvalley]

[QUOTE=rockrewls;164658]

This forum shouldn't be as much about beating a brand drum as it should be about real life experiences good and bad in all conditions, environments and ride styles, only then can it truly be a well informed community.

Rock

I agree, you might as well be beating a dead horse if anyone thinks there is one brand better than another,it's just not true.
Every track out there has its good points and bad points,and instead of trying to push one brand or another,one that has track experience should inform the readers of this forum to the good and bad of their track,and let them make an informed judgement for themselves as to which track might work best for them.
Tracks are extemely expensive,and I feel real bad for anybody that buys a set of tracks based on hype rather than the track type(if any) that would work best for there application.
For example,I don't hear to much about argo rubber tracks, but,in an extremly rocky enviroment,I'm guessing they would blow any other track right out of the water,including both the sets of tracks that are talked about all the time here.They are just the best choice for this application.

[rockrewls]

Agreed Fox, there are many many factors to consider when buying a track, first is your budget what can you afford, are you willing to wait and save for something that might work better, what is your ride environment or terrain like, how many seasons of the year are you riding in and will this track suit those seasons, which track can offer the best positives and least amount of negatives for my ride style and environment.
What is the life expectancy of the track I choose, will the track de-rail under loose or low pressure circumstances, side hilling and/or heavy loaded conditions, there are many more factors im sure im missing, but if a person is to make a well informed decision they need real life testimonies good bad or otherwise, a full picture so to speak, not some individual trying to brand protect what may have not been as good an investment as they could have made, saying yours is the best knowing that you've had to do things "extreme tire inflation, repairs, de-railment issues etc" in the back ground and not relaying to others doesn't help the community make informed decisions.

Rock

[Old Tucker]

The nice thing about this site is. We can share info. Thats how I learn. Buy listening to what different track owners have to say. And making phone calls. As you all know I am a chanel track fan and I would put them up there with the Escargo. Comparing them to the Escargo. The big difference is the crosser, the Escargo has a lot taller crosser that will give you more bit. Other then that they are about the same. Impossible to walk out of. The only thing I would change is if I ordered a new set is I would go to a six inch outer belt instead of the four inch. Yes I did add paddles, now the paddle surface area is about the same as the Escargo track. What I did with my tracks and what Buzz does with his, and what Joe does with his Adair tracks. Is something we all can learn from. That is what the forum is all about.
If I had the $ I would of gone to the Escargo. But I am very happy with the chanel track and I have had no ensues with them at all. I would love to go to a winter kit on them. But then I would be looking at a new trailer. And the wife said ( No I will not say it on here.).
I thank every one on here for their input on different tracks. And every ones snow is a little different. Buzz clears his sidewalk with a leaf blower because the snow is so dry and our dry snow you still have to shovel. When and if it ever snows again.
I tillered my garden the other day. Getting it ready to plant.

[jerseybigfoot]

Well Marc, you see your machine lacks low gear and is most likely useless without it. Additionally, without a triple limited slip differential, it is just old technology that hasn't been updated since the late 60's. Also, I don't know if we ever came to the conclusion that springers are worth it, but then you go and throw some recycled hdpe tracks on there. Everyone knows the cross binder material is way better here. And seriously doughnuts it the front yard is just not how these machines were designed to be driven. They need more challenging terrain than a rose garden. Oh wait. That is just envy being displayed. Obviously you built a great trail ready machine prior to the tracks. I rode next to you and it was awesome. Then you took it to the next level. Even I had doubts that a track would work on a springer, but you proved they would. And low gear, well it's just not needed on a t-20. They are much more efficient at putting the power at the wheels than any Argo design. Oh yeah, finally you choose a track with great consumer feedback from a company with an outstanding reputation. Some may not be impressed, but I feel like I just got to see a glimps of what the future in our hobby has to hold for us. If that doesn't make the side by side crowd drool, they don't have their eyes open.

Drew loved the write up. Thanks for the belly laugh.
no seriously a tracked springer is a whole nother machine. I do have an older Argo 8 project in the works. Might have to rethink the track program for that.

[kghills]

I know before I bought my first set of tracks I went to Beaver Dam Argo here in Wisconsin. I had read as much as I could about the subject on this forum as a non member and was set on buying an open grouser style track and Argo. At Beaver Dam Chris had both Adair UHMW grouser and Esacargo steel grouser tracks and both on machines. Chris even had more new Escargo tracks sitting on pallets. Without anyone getting there undies in a bundle here is what I remember thinking. Steel tracks? My toes curled up in my boots. I envisioned mud, marshes, swamps, woods, creeks, ponds for summer and frozen ponds with a little snow for the winter. I was upgrading from a Max II I bought new in 95 that ran 22" rawhides. When I looked at the Escargo tracks I honestly could not imagine what on earth anybody would want a set of those for. Here are a few questions that flashed through my head. How do you haul a machine with the Escargo tracks? My enclosed trailer has an aluminum door skin and the floor is checkerboard vinyl, my open trailer has a nice treated plywood deck. How would the seal coat on the asphalt look after I unloaded the machine. Any hose, extension cord or item left in the yard would be sliced and diced like Julian fries. Too me the Escargo tracks looked and still do like something for heavy equipment. I test drove a Frontier with Adair tracks because it looked "friendlier" for lack of a better description. The Adair tracks looked like something that was certainly better than tires, had an open design and looked like it was designed for an amphibious enthusiast not a construction company. At that time gear reduction, staying on better, frozen hill climbing meant very little to me. I am trying to state these things not because the Adair track is better than the Escargo track but because I think it is what a very large percentage of the market sees. A hobbiest/enthusiast looks at the Adair track and says OK and looks at the Escargo track and says construction equipment or commercial use, not for me. That's how I looked at it at least and I am thinking most of the people that you will find reporting on this forum probably come at it from the same angle. Now you also should try to remember the difference these people will see in performance compared to tires. I know I was almost in a state of disbelief. I took pictures and videos and you know still do. I'm thinking the commercial crowd doesn't. My guess is not seeing a bunch of posts about how wonderful Escargo tracks are has nothing to do with the performance of the tracks. Its the same reason I bet you don't see a bunch of posts about Mudd-Ox. The average Mudd-Ox owner just is not going to post, they have work to do and it probably involves using their Machine. It has nothing to do with conspiracy or the structure of the forum unless you consider that the site is most populated by enthusiasts, and if enthusiasts tend to choose Adair tracks I guess you need to figure Escargo owners are just out numbered. That's my take at least.

Now since my Argo Bigfoot purchase which I fitted with Adair tracks I have also owned a Max IV with waffle tracks and an Attex with plastic tracks. I have to say that most all the information presented on the forum about these kind of tracks is accurate and I chose to purchase a second set of Adair tracks to fit on the Max IV. I have to honestly say I have not experienced any problems that would cause me to say "holy crap, I need to be careful or I will loose a track". I have probably 4 times got an Adair track close, even twisted the entire track under at Haspin but my machine just does not have the power to work the grouser of the mud and snow track off the tires. I'm not saying the elevated design of the Escargo is not better at staying on I am just saying I personally am not seeing the need for it and therefore am not seeing it as an advantage. That is what you are also hearing from a large number of Adair track owners. I honestly believe if throwing Adair tracks was any sort of problem at all you would see all sorts of complaints posted, pictures and videos etc. I mean how could you stop them. Tire pressure with Adair tracks is not really as critical as I keep hearing implied is also my experience anywhere between 4-7 depending on tire profile is what I am seeing people run. I run anywhere between 3-6 personally. It is nowhere near as critical as it is with rubber tracks. The gear reduction I now understand and I can see that as a big deal or advantage for the elevated belt design. While I understand it for an Argo I still think with a Mudd-Ox turbo diesel who would care, I know Matt doesn't seem to. Tracks for me is what makes my machine do what I want.

I think it's OK to argue back and forth about the tracks. Name calling doesn't really even bother me to tell you the truth. Check out a diesel truck forum. Chevy vs Dodge vs Ford. Most of those guys are VERY brand passionate. I also guess I am not seeing any real deceit. There are just too many pictures and videos that usually accompany the information that people are trying to convey. I appreciate the recent surge in Escargo pictures and videos. I think there is a definite lack of owners posting but as I said previously I sort of expect it and it has nothing to do with the performance. Escargo owners: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE KEEP THE INFORMATION COMING.

Now back to knowledge seeking. I have question about tire wear with the Escargo tracks. What are you seeing? I know with the UHMW grousers my Rawhides have only the slightest rounding of some of the lugs and no sidewall wear at all after 100hrs. How does an Escargo track work with tires. I know my Rawhides that ran inside of my rubber waffle tracks definitely saw some wear but it did not seem to be that big a deal I could just tell they had been run in tracks. I also understand the Escargo tracks have been around a long time. Any owners that have had them a long time? What is the wear item on them if anything.

And a special paragraph of my Buzz length post for Buzz himself. I think the owners of Adair tracks really at heart like all tracks, and understandably probably Adair tracks most. Your Mudd-Ox lost an Adair Pro series track. That's good information. I think a lot of people were really interested in how it happened. They asked for pictures of the tires and tracks on your machine. You have to realize most were in problem solving mode at this point. Their not saying how could you do that, but "how could you do that?" with a question mark, myself included. When others offered pictures and comments on profiles and such it seemed too easily dismissed. I think this is what got most people no longer interested in any sort of positive dialog. I mean really, pregnant wife berry picking? First off I am thinking how many months along is she? My wife waddled around for at least the last three and being hoisted up into a vehicle with no suspension to drive to only god knows where breathing diesel exhaust then dumped out into a pricker patch to scrounge for a few berries. Were you trying to induce labor? You sure she wasn't thinking about killing you before you lost a track? Even though that whole sort of saga sort of sounds a bit off to us less hardier folks. I do have to thank you for sharing your perspective of the Escargo steel grouser and the steel insert in a UWMW grouser. The terrain you show and the performance of such configurations was previously unknown to me. Without you taking the time to explain and present examples I do not think I would have understood why on earth a person would opt for such an aggressive design.

Oh and you might want to keep the little one away from those Escargo grousers. They look like they could cut someone. Keith.

[Buzz]

Come on Keith. Most people are very smart. I really don't think they will necessarily see things from your perspective...as convenient as that might be.

A lot of parts on argos need to be replaced entirely too often. Luckily they're improving this little by little. This is a big giant deal to people who use their machines for utility..even recreational utility like hunting. 8 wheels, loaded, towing, climbing, in all conditions. I have a certain level of respect for someone who is willing to banter back and forth. Facts and information need to come out. This part is cool.

Using your machine like many of us do up here, requires certain things. In my opinion, certain track styles make it much much easier and sucessful. The notion that an escargo track is overkill....hmm..well.
you know they say beating your head against the wall burns 150 calories an hour.

As for the wife riding along... I guess I'll just smile and shake my head. Don't you worry about my little ones either. I wish you could see the area. It's one of the few things that matter in life. Trying to go fast is not my style. It's really not good for much of anything with these machines. This is exactly why I think the 6-wheel crowd and terrain park goers really aren't the ones who should be giving track-advice to guys who use their 8-wheelers in Alaska conditions.

In regards to youtube...well. I'm as guilty as any there. But I can sleep at night after giving my opinion. BTW, I'm not claiming conspiracy. I'll never B.S. anyone..doesn't matter if it benefits me or not. The word is getting out about some of the "customers" who pile it on against escargo. Why would someone have to go there?