Escargo and Adair Tracks comparison

[kghills]

Yes, the one video with the bay and mountains was breathtaking. I think you may be underestimating the size recreational market in a sense. Volume is hudge. It sort of makes your application the nitch of a nitch market. I usually try to look at sales numbers to validate the what is what. Besides it's obvious to me a truely intelligent person will always see things my way.

Keith.

[Buzz]

well if you can make me chuckle..you're alright. Most of the time.

[Buzz]

somebody's got to know....which argo dealership sells the most machines? I really don't know- In years past, most of the machines could always be found in Alaska and Canada. But maybe they're selling like hotcakes down there? We do use them in "all-seasons" but many many guys use them as dedicated hunting rigs, because that is what they're best at. Snowmachines can be better, boats can be better, ATV's can be better at times. But for crossing all terrain types, carrying a load, towing, and climbing- the 8x8's are hard to beat. So of course, that's what I tend to focus my advice on.

For what it's worth. I think that recreational machines deserve to have some of the qualities of the escargo track too.....even if you think they're not needed.

[kghills]

I am told most of the Argos shipped to Alaska are sold by dealers in the lower 48. Not supposed to work that way but something about people up there not caring to deal with the Alaska Argo dealer. Thats the rumor at least. I was told a year or so ago the number of Argos produced a year but have forgotten. That number may be somewhat relevant. I know Matt is up to around a Mudd-Ox a day and is still about 30 units behind. Trying to keep this somewhat on track here is a picture of the two Mudd-Ox just finished with Vendetta 26x16x12s and 20" wide Ripsaw and Chevron rubber tracks. The Alaska Mudd-Ox dealer is selling the XLs like crazy. Going to hunters is my understanding. Not with Adair or Escargo tracks either.


Keith

[rockrewls]

Yes we have a lot of argo's in Canada, why? because we need them to get to a lot of areas in the north, the conditions are just that bad sometimes, as for Keith's comments YOU sir may not care about de-railment or climbing out of very nasty water log ridden situations or climbing over multiple crossed logs coming out of a steep valley with a moose in the back, climbing up the river banks that are a 1.5 mile climb and very very steep but up here in Canada some of us certainly do, and reliability in the bush is paramount.
therefore wanting to hear more about various elevated track designs the good the bad and the ugly, is what some of us are after gear reduction included, you may not have a problem with tracks de-railing or almost de-railing and I suspect its because you ride on trails made for quads mostly, well I don't and many of us don't.
As to calling down a track because its "Over built" personally I would gladly have an over built track then an under built track and cutting extension cords and hoses, give me a break where do you ride on your front lawn?
The fact you've stated you almost drove out of your tracks 4 times and over them once, in what to me would be minor trail conditions tells me a lot about the pro-series thanks for the info it helps me solidify that I will never own anything but an elevated track design.
I never realized just how prejudice some in this community can be without even trying something, I was that person for a while but im not now, I want facts, unedited videos, unbias comments, with all the information.
Keith if your happy with your tracks i'm glad for you, enjoy them, but don't come down on others trying to show just how good and possibly! "better" other tracks may be especially in diverse or extreme situations.

Rock

[Buzz]

well rumor is rumor...who told you that (just curious). The Alaska argo dealer has always been really friendly to me, and I drive primarily mudd-ox's. I've always heard they were the largest argo dealership worldwide but I have no idea about sales #'s. Most new guys only know about the internet anyway, so there you go. It's getting more common to find all kinds of stuff in the lower 48 and figure out how to get it up here economically. But, it eventually ends up..up here or up in the oilfield. Lots of them.

at any rate, the point is most of the 8-wheeled machines are above the border..so to speak. I'm super glad to see some XL's headed up too. And, believe me, you'll see some with elevated belt-tracks trust me on that one, whether it means going to 26x12x12 tires or a custom track. It's just a matter of time. Now that will be an awesome machine...

[mightymaxIV]

So should I keep the Adair Tracks or try something else.

Wow Mark, the machine is awesome! Please keep the tracks on the springer, looks like it will have no limitations! I wanna see if we can get that machine stuck (doubt it). Two thumbs up!

[Model Citizen]

I know Matt is up to around a Mudd-Ox a day and is still about 30 units behind.

Oh Oh, Sounds like anyone that has a Max, Max IV or Buffalo better hold on to their machines 'cause they might be classic cars now. Wonder how many units they'll be behind if someone orders a Max & how long it will take to get one of THEM now. Not relevant to track topic, but relevant to comment made. Bummer.


Bridget

[kghills]

Oh Oh, Sounds like anyone that has a Max, Max IV or Buffalo better hold on to their machines 'cause they might be classic cars now. Wonder how many units they'll be behind if someone orders a Max & how long it will take to get one of THEM now. Not relevant to track topic, but relevant to comment made. Bummer.


Bridget

Matt had 40 different Max machines built before he moved the production line from NY to IN. There are still a few left and the first machines to be made in IN are starting to roll off the line. While waiting to get the Max line up he was busy making Max parts in house so that when the line was up they had parts to build machines. At the same time Max dealers that have sot been actively selling and promoting the Max line are being dropped and Dealers more willing to activley sell and promote the line are being sought. On top of this the phone orders are being filled and shipped and new employees trained and prototype machines built and tested. From what I see when I visit there Mudd-Ox or Matt was a savior to the Max Machines. RI was a declining bussiness on it's way out so I can see quite the opposite and so do many others in the community. More has happened in the last 6 months to promote growth for the company than did in 6 years under Jay from what I can tell. Given the Max line has not changed really since each models introduction it can be argued that even a brand new machine is aready a "classic". That looks to be about to change. Who knows maybe Adair or Escargo tracks might be a factory option.

Glad to see your following the thread Bridget, even if you don't own tracks feel free to ask qiestions.

Kisses, Keith.

[Buzz]

lightweight plastic tracks and offset wheels would be a good option on a lightweight Max

[kghills]

lightweight plastic tracks and offset wheels would be a good option on a lightweight Max

Does Escargo make a track that would fit a Max Buffalo? That might fit some peoples application pretty good in frozen stuff maybe?

Yes we have a lot of argo's in Canada, why? because we need them to get to a lot of areas in the north, the conditions are just that bad sometimes, as for Keith's comments YOU sir may not care about de-railment or climbing out of very nasty water log ridden situations or climbing over multiple crossed logs coming out of a steep valley with a moose in the back, climbing up the river banks that are a 1.5 mile climb and very very steep but up here in Canada some of us certainly do, and reliability in the bush is paramount.
therefore wanting to hear more about various elevated track designs the good the bad and the ugly, is what some of us are after gear reduction included, you may not have a problem with tracks de-railing or almost de-railing and I suspect its because you ride on trails made for quads mostly, well I don't and many of us don't.
As to calling down a track because its "Over built" personally I would gladly have an over built track then an under built track and cutting extension cords and hoses, give me a break where do you ride on your front lawn?
The fact you've stated you almost drove out of your tracks 4 times and over them once, in what to me would be minor trail conditions tells me a lot about the pro-series thanks for the info it helps me solidify that I will never own anything but an elevated track design.
I never realized just how prejudice some in this community can be without even trying something, I was that person for a while but im not now, I want facts, unedited videos, unbias comments, with all the information.
Keith if your happy with your tracks i'm glad for you, enjoy them, but don't come down on others trying to show just how good and possibly! "better" other tracks may be especially in diverse or extreme situations.

Rock

Rock, your points are very well taken thank you. Yes I do ride in my front yard and back yard etc. That is why I bought my first machine for in 95 and still own an AMPHIB. My previous lengthy post tried to explain this and the number of machines that are purely recreational thus the reasoning behind that group of owners and the representation in percentages you see responding and buying/promoting certain kinds of tracks. Sorry if you were offended by my impressions and reasoning for purchasing my brand of track but I also do not plow my driveway with a D9 Cat even though it is about a half mile long. If you have no problems with hoses, cords, small children etc. do you have an opinion on asphalt driveways trailers tire wear etc. or do you find those points irrelevant also. If you do that's fine. From what I understand the elevated design is impossible to derail and I understand why you would choose it. That would certainly be a consideration because loosing a track in the middle of nowhere would suck.

Here is a video of my favorite back yard to drive in, Dougs.

As a hobbyist/enthusiast I tend to run my tires as low as possible for ride, around 3psi when I can. I am told this is a bit low after Haspin have them up around 6psi. With the older chain style Adair tracks there is a need to remove a half link or link after a time. At around 100hrs I guess I'm do. But my machine is probably not what a backwoodsman like yourself is interested in at all so here is a little of Dougs stuff from his back yard.

And at the neibors.

But here again I have heard that an Argo may not be the most reliable machine itself so I guess who the heck really knows.

Keith, who if I lived in Alaska would have an old Nodwell so fast it would make your head spin. I think those old things are the coolest.

[rockrewls]

Keith, im glad you see my point, and no I don't drive around my yard on my lawn because I think that's just silly JMO, I use my machine in the bush and im not talking a mile from home, my hunting grounds are 60 miles from my house by vehicle and then another 40- 50 miles from the vehicle base, so you see your track selection would never work for me, I need the reliability of an elevated track system.
I don't know why you think adair elevated tracks make your machine like a D9 im puzzled by your continuous reference to construction equipment, I assume your only referring to the escargo or chanel track systems, I would think instead of judging those tracks on the surfaces you mentioned you might ask someone how they perform instead of slamming them with bias BS, I've seen all the video's by the way at least 2 of those videos include the addition of metal added traction devices to make the tracks work properly, I guess there goes your asphalt and, trailer surfaces, hoses and cords theory according to your thinking anyway, as soon as you add metal traction the weight of your tracks has now increased to almost as much as an escargo track system, aside from the fact it would make them extremely hard to turn under a load as the traction devices are always dug into the ground.
with elevated track systems any additional traction devices can be added and be elevated until you go into, water, mud, skeg, peat holes, which would them aid in traction but as soon as your out the traction device is elevated and not a hindrance to the machine.
Obviously with escargo and chanel track systems additional traction may not be required and with the adair system you can add traction to the elevated belt for when you need it and still have the great turning ability and floatation of UHMW crossers on the ground.
As you can see i'm not against adair at all although you seem to indicate it, what im not partial to is a flat track design, at least for where I live and for what I do.

Rock

[guyfox]

Time to make this tread interesting.....

My FORD is better then your chev.....notice how chev is in small letters....hahaha

From what I have been reading everyone thinks that their track design is the "better" option..My honest opinion is that what works best for you in your conditions will be the best for you....

Some people can read and write what they want but will not deter someone from buying a chev when they should buy a FORD (again). It is nice to see all the info out there weather it be goood, the bad or the ugly.

Just because one thrack design do not work best for you does not mean that it will not work for someone else.....Keep it clean....except for your machines....Love to see videos of them in the mud nice and dirty....

[Buzz]

some tracks
-grip and climb better and add additional power to do it
-go better in the mudd (paddle surface area, belt floatation, clean-out area)
-turn better in the sticky or soft stuff to save your drivetrain. Again, they provide extra power to do it
-don't fall off
-work on big tires, 8 wheels and heavy loads.

Some don't

[kghills]

Time to make this tread interesting.....

My FORD is better then your chev.....notice how chev is in small letters....hahaha...

Everybody knows that. And yes the Boss Vplow is plastic.


My reference to construction equipment is not meant to be derogatory. Its just the most vivid image for comparison that I get when I look at the all metal grousers. Going from tires to tracks the plastic grousers was was more a consistent visual extension of the plastic body for me while the all metal grousers almost become a secondary design element with an identity all themselves even more pronounced. Metal additions are not on my tracks. I like the 18.5 Adair mud and snow tracks because they are a somewhat flat track. I do not sink down as far before my side plates try to give me flotation and my overall width is less while still getting the benefits of the larger side plates for floatation. In Marshes, mud, sand and snow I get a ton of flotation for the overall width of the track. It is all UHMW however and lacks the ability to grab frozen terrain such as what you are describing.

I'm actually more interested in your application. Do you have a fuel hauler? What do you do to be able to get to the remote cabin and then still have fuel to explore/hunt/haul. It would seem fuel would become somewhat problematic. I'm guessing your base camp must end up being some sort of fuel depot. Doesn't gearing your machines down make the fuel consumption even worse? Just sort of curious.

Keith.